What's wrong with good ole fashion glue?

[Goo]

Not to sound like I'm a Luddite here but as I read through many of the posts asking advice on fixing, patching, repairs etc to gun stocks, most of the glue advice is in favor of superglue, epoxy's etc.    I seem to see extremely few of any any in favor of regular old wood glue as in the elmer's line up.   What's wrong with the yellow or white glues?  I use them and they bond well dry quickly and stay put.

[sleddman]

Nothing wrong with it but make sure it is a water proof glue for best results. 

[Daryl]

Titebond 2 and 3 are very good for wood repairs. Most Elmers wood glues, I think, are not water-resistant and might swell, let go or fail in high humidity conditions as well as when hunting in the spring or fall. Perhaps Elmer's wood glue has improved over the years?

[ltdann]

Nothing wrong with the old glues...and I use them if time isn't a issue.  But, If I'm in the middle of something and "in the zone" and need a quick repair to continue, I'll go with an epoxy or super glue.  I tend to use the super glue for very small chips and epoxy where strength may be an issue.

I really like the titebond II, it's good stuff.

[deepcreekdale]

I almost exclusively use Titebond III. Very strong when cured, if clamped tight, the glue line is almost invisible. If you really want to be a Luddite, hide glue is even better. I am not a fan of super glue on wood, maybe in certain applications but it can get you in trouble in a hurry and tends to be visible after finishing. I don't think it is that permanent either, I have had old super glued joints come loose after a few years with little or no pressure.

[Daryl]

I found exactly that, with the tiny little bottles or tubes of brand "SUPER GLUE" sold in hardware stores.  The Cyanoacrylate Glues sold in hobby stores seem more permanent. Radio Controlled airplanes completely glued together using ultra-thin, thin, medium and thick 'super' glues NEVER let got, over 10 or more years of flying, which, when I flew them, was high stress conditions. If my plane wasn't going 100mph, it need MORE POWER!

[deepcreekdale]

Daryl is right, the CA glues available in hobby shops do seem better although, to be honest after many years, I don't recall where I bought the glues that have failed. Years ago, I spoke to a sales rep at a hobby shop I happened to be in, we were just talking in general but he mentioned that almost all CA glue comes from the same manufacturer, it is just purchased by different companies and repackaged and  relabeled. He said how it is stored before sale such as exposure to heat etc, has a lot to do with the quality. I don't know if that was just a sales pitch or not. I used to build wooden model ships, so do have a lot of experience with CA glues, they certainly do  have their place. The problem with CA glue, it has terrific tensile strength but very little shear strength. Almost any CA joint can be broken with just a light tap across the joint, but it is almost impossible to break the joint by pulling.  I just think there are better options for gunbuilding purposes. I still prefer Titebond for repairing minor chip outs and quick repairs, it is dry in about a half hour if clamped.

[Darkhorse]

Elmer's white glue is the only glue I'll use on wood. I have one repair on a forend that had completely split out about 9" from the muzzle. I immediately stopped working and using Elmer's I repaired the split. This was around 15 years ago. Today, even I can't for sure see the repair. As for humidity it hardly gets any more humid than Central Georgia. We have constant humidity coming in from both the gulf and atlantic. Not a problem so far. Never noticed any swelling after my stocks were sealed and finished. Until Elmer's actually fails me I won't consider switching to anything else.

[JCKelly]

Late '60's worked as a metallurgist for an aircraft jet engine manufacturer. One of the early prints I signed, for a test fixture, included Franklin Hide Glue, also I think maple.
Actual GLUE has the advantage that you can UN-glue it for repair or rework.

[JCurtiss]

Late '60's worked as a metallurgist for an aircraft jet engine manufacturer. One of the early prints I signed, for a test fixture, included Franklin Hide Glue, also I think maple.
Actual GLUE has the advantage that you can UN-glue it for repair or rework.

Indeed, hide glue has been used extensively for building violins since the 1530s. In some situations it can be tricky to use, owing to its relatively quick set-up time.

Best,

Jason

[Pukka Bundook]

When I fixed that 'Bess, in the "Nightmare thread", I used a combination of Elmer's yellow wood glue, and some slow -setting epoxy.

The Elmer's was used on the clean break parts, and epoxy for where fractured and some rubbing/wood missing and such.  Added some fine wood particles for (hopefully) elasticity.
I do have a bottle of Tightbond on the shelf, but never used it.  not tried so no confidence yet!

About 40 years ago, I used some yellow wood glue when splicing a shaft on a garden spade.  Cut a V wedge and made a corresponding wedge -shaped  extension, with a "T" top.  It's still holding, even if yellow wood glue isn't supposed to be waterproof.   If Linda used it, she'd leave it sitting out in the garden, and it got wet lots of times, sometimes for days or weeks if I didn't notice it!

[M. E. Pering]

Hide glue is, indeed, a great glue for furniture, veneer, and musical instrument making.  I am currently using it to construct a violin right now.  But I would NEVER be tempted to use it on a firearm of any kind.  In instrument making, you want a very strong joint, but one that can be easily and cleanly disassembled should the need arise.  This is easily done with a little warm water at the joint.   Hide glue does have a very short working time depending on working conditions, and about a 24 hour cure time, again, depending on environmental conditions.  On top of that, hide glue must be kept between 145 and 160 degrees F in a glue pot, and it's consistency constantly monitored due to evaporation that occurs as the minutes pass.

However, a firearm is likely to see water in it's lifetime, so a waterproof glue is called for here.  I have been using Titebond Ultimate for any wood repairs on the rifles I build, as it claims to be water-proof.

[rich pierce]

I’m pretty sure hide glue was what they used back then.

[Pukka Bundook]

Maybe so Rich, but they weren't trying to stick back together things broken as we see today.  Back then, they'd have chucked a shattered stock on the fire and built a new one.

Some were made with a piece attached for a cheek -piece, (Sweden/Denmark, etc. ) and these would likely stay put with a few coats of oil to keep wet out. In fact, they have stayed put on the ones I have seen.

Very best,
Richard.

[Waksupi]

I use the Titebond II & III. We used it at a gun company to make laminated stocks. With proper clamping, the joint is invisible. Not to mention they are waterproof.

I finished restoring an old handmade violin last week, probably 150 years old. I had to remove the top for the repair, and was surprised that when I started the removal, the top pretty much fell off. The old hide glue had crystallized, and lost it's hold. Granted, you use a very thin hide glue to put the top on bowed instruments, but this is the first one I saw that was in this condition. I wondered if it hadn't come from a very damp area to allow the glue to release like this.