If you shoot steel, I need advice...

[trentOH]

I like to shoot a match at Primitive at Friendship, called King's Mountain. It is a timed (5 minute) match of 5 shots at 120 yards at a 2 piece steel target. If you hit the British soldier's head, it scores 10 points  If you hit the body, it's 5 points. However, the head or body must fall over.
This month I shot it pretty well with my 50 caliber Dixie Mountain Rifle. I shoot my 40 caliber longrifle better, and would prefer to use it in the match. Unfortunately, when I shot my 40 at this steel before, it just PINGS the steel and doesn't knock it down. Thus, in a roundabout way, I arrive at my question...

If I were to shoot a harder ball, instead of pure lead, would it deliver more knockdown power on said yonder target???

[Hungry Horse]

A harder ball, therefore a lighter ball, will bleed off kinetic energy faster, so in essence the impact will be lighter, with the same charge.

  Hungry Horse

[Gary W.E.]

Are you using 3f powder? What is your powder charge?

[rich pierce]

Hardnessof the ball has nothing to do with knocking it over.  Harder ball does not deliver more energy.

[Mauser06]

I see the theory though... instead of a softer ball "splattering" a little hardness might transfer more energy to the steel to drop it...

But, does that theory hold water or not...?  I have no idea...but I see the concept. Maybe worth a try? 

[EC121]

You would have to know the speed and weight of both balls to calculate the foot pounds of energy expended on the target.  A lighter ball moving faster could  have  more energy, but how much faster would it have to go to equal the energy of the heavier ball.    Plan B would be to go for the most points on the head shots with the .50cal., and a low miss would hit the body.  From Wikipedia Muzzle Energy = 1/2  x  mass(in kilograms) x velocity squared.  Of course aerodynamics and deceleration, etc. affect things downrange.
     

[stubshaft]

A harder ball will have a longer dwell time on target.  I have won a number of State Championships shooting condom pistols.  With the exception of a couple of ft/lbs potentially lost upon impact due to a slightly light ball, the harder projectile will take longer to deteriorate and provide more of the energy onto the target.  I used to "ring" rams at 200 yds with "S" brand condoms and switched to pure lino.  Never had a problem after that.


Think deeper penetration rather than rapid expansion.  That being said.  If you don't have the horsepower to knock it down it is not going to happen with any projectile.

[bob in the woods]

Send the ball faster or send a larger ball. That's all there really is to it .  My friend had your experience with a .40 and even after boosting the charge , he still had failures when some targets were hit low. Going up in size to a .45 was the answer.

[Bob Roller]

A 40 caliber ball weighs about 90 grains.A round ball sheds velocity quickly and
tests in years past even 54 caliber round balls of around 230 grains will drop 13" in 100
yards.If I were going to get involved with this type of shooting I'd make or buy and
English styled sporting rifle in 58 caliber.That ball weighs about 280 grains.
HH is right about the linotype ball being too light.I have some long .457 bullets cast
in pure tin that weigh 350 grains each. Cast in pure lead they are 515 grains.

Bob Roller

[Daryl]

With about any load you would or could use, the .40's ball lacks the momentum to knock over heavy objects.

You need a heavier ball. If this is a round ball only shoot, you need a larger calibre.  A .445" pure lead ball weighs approx. 132gr. compared to a .395" ball's 94gr. weight. That almost 40% heavier

 ball will work much better on reactive targets and of course the .50's .495" ball at 182gr. is much better yet.

Projectile "momentum" is what works on moving steel.  The higher the momentum, the more knock down potential there is. I have read in other sources that softer bullet or ball materials

 has/have a  long hang or dwell time when impacting steel, than harder projectiles do as the harder projectiles tend to fragment on contact, while the softer ones stick merely expanding, impart

or transfer more energy to the object hit. This explanation seemed to make sense to me, especially after watching some slow-motion photography of bullets impacting steel plates, compared to

soft ones that merely expanded & didn't fragment.

[Ezra]

Ya need mo mo.


Ez

[T*O*F]

I like to shoot a match at Primitive at Friendship,

They have already solved this problem on the other side of the road.  On the metallic silhouette range there are two classes....smallbore is 45 or less, large bore is greater than 45.  The knockdowns are different sizes for obvious reasons.

[Nessmuck]

You need more lead....

[smokinbuck]

I have a rifled .72 caliber half stock that should do the job anywhere you hit it!
Mark

[Daryl]

Yes- I've proven that even a much smaller .69 ball will work, Mark.

[Leatherbark]

 I've been contemplating .445 wheel weight balls myself.  The reason being is that with a solid hit on the standing bear at 200 yards my .445 pure lead ball will only knock it over with a head shot. The soft lead is splattered all over the ground.  The problem is that the steel bears have been impacted so much over the years they no longer stand straight up but are now leaning toward the shooter making it even harder to knock them over with a .445 pure lead  ball.  A wheel weight .445 if it is accurate enough might give a few more ft. lbs. to knock the bear down.

Bob

[Standing Bear]

.54 or .58.  Use lead for higher retained velocity.

[Hungry Horse]

Leather ark;

 You may find you will have problems loading a .445 hard ball with the same patching you use with a pure lead ball. Alloyed balls tend to be a bit larger diameter than a pure lead ball.
 I’ve found no cure for light calibers on steel targets. The cure unfortunately is increased ball size. Even .50 caliber balls don’t alway topple big steel targets if the hit is low.

  Hungry Horse

[trentOH]

  A wheel weight .445 if it is accurate enough might give a few more ft. lbs. to knock the bear down.

Bob

Sure, there a couple of obvious ways to get more foot pounds downrange. But my curiosity is if a harder ball would TRANSFER that energy more completely onto the steel.

[Daryl]

The premise that a harder ball will hit the steel harder has already been discussed.

[Mike_StL]

Falling targets need to be set up at the topple point so that a hit will move the target even slightly and it will fall.  The target design should be such that a 45 (0.440" ball) pushed by 65 grains of 3f black powder should cause the target to fall.  I was able to reliably knock over the 200 yard silhouette bears when I used 90 grains of 3f in a 45 caliber rifle on silhouette ranges and when I hit the bear, they would fall.  Many of these targets get hit so often that it is hard to find a position on the target stand that they stay upright.  Then if there are gusting winds, all hope that a target would stay upright were cashed to the ground.

So, as far as advice on shooting at steel falling targets, use a larger ball.  Get better with your50 caliber rifle.

[Daryl]

Exactly - or shoot bullets.