First Build-Buttplate question - what to do?

[leoparddog]

The curve of the plate and the tang cut in the wood was done as part of the kit, so the challenge is to get the metal to fit that cut out. This is where I stopped last night.

I'm pretty sure now that the buttplate isn't square at the inside corner - left to right side. One side sits better than the other. This may be due to my filing skills or may be a casting issue. I'm thinking it is the casting since the side with the biggest gap at the inside corner is the side that I barely touched with the file on the underside.

So what to do now? Do I file off metal on the top Left side that fits pretty well to get the gap on the top Right side to close or keep inletting wood on the left side and dropping it down to close the gap? With the arrow.

Right side gap I need to close.



This left side under the plate tang fits pretty well, but will need a bit of wood removed to radius the corner and bring it foward abit.

[Sawfiler]

Anneal the butt plate, peen the edge of it over to meet the wood then file out the hammer marks.

[bama]

First take a little wood off of the toe portion, this will allow the back of the heal to set down flush. Once you have the heal setting level then you can see how much forward the butt plate needs to go. This is where a good transfer color comes in handy. Color the butt plate and gently tap at the heal to transfer color to the wood. Remove the color from the wood and repeat the process until you get a good fit. Once you get a good fit if you still have some small gaps then peen the edges to close the gaps.

I like to use scrapers to remove wood once I get close. I use the Jerry Fisher scrapers, you can get them from Brownells.

[flehto]

The top of the Bplate return should be in line w/ the combline  looking from the side and it should be in line w/ the comb looking down  from the top. When these 2 criteria are met then continue inletting. I scribe a line in the center of the return and align that w/ a line on the comb.

I don't pound or peen the Bplate into conformity w/ the wood, although some do.  Leaving too much wood or bandsawing  to a wrong contour can result in a lot of chiseling......Fred

[leoparddog]

Thanks all,
I'm not too worried about the curve of the plate, I think that will come together with a bit more encouragement.  The part I'm most curious about is where I inserted the arrow.  The casting has a "hump" (less brass) on the right than it does on the left side - so the tang of the buttplate isn't really square.  What I'm considering now is filing down the brass on the underside of the tang on the left side to even it up with the right side.  Basically trying to get the gap on the heel to close up.  Once that closes up, I can work on the point of the buttstock and the face cut on the tang to bring it forward a bit more.

Added image with arrow - hope it helps.

[Greg Pennell]

Personally, I wouldn’t cut any wood until I had my casting filed as straight and square as I could get it. It’s the nature of a casting to be a bit warped, or twisted, and has to be fixed before you start inletting.

Greg

[n stephenson]

Personally, I wouldn’t cut any wood until I had my casting filed as straight and square as I could get it. It’s the nature of a casting to be a bit warped, or twisted, and has to be fixed before you start inletting.

Greg

As Greg stated, file the edge of the return  flat . It looks like you only need to file from the middle of the return forward till it gets flat. You may have to take a little off the other side as well to get it to lay flat. I would get the casting straightened out before cutting any more wood. You look to have plenty of wood to work with, so your still in good shape. Just true up your casting and proceed. You will probably be very close already so it will be fine. Nate

[P.W.Berkuta]

Personally, I wouldn’t cut any wood until I had my casting filed as straight and square as I could get it. It’s the nature of a casting to be a bit warped, or twisted, and has to be fixed before you start inletting.

Greg

BINGO!!!! This is what you do FIRST before you layout for the installation of the BP

[PPatch]

Berkuta is correct, your first order of business will be to prep the inside of the buttplate. It would be very premature to go pounding on it at this stage, if you feel it needs any persuading then save that for the very end of the fitting process. Now too is a good opportunity to dress the outside of the plate, but that can wait if you wish. Before you begin the fitting mark centerlines on both the wood and your plate.

1. File the inside as flat and square as you are able. From your photo I can see the the forward end of the butt plate extension needs filing so the it sits level on the wood - be sure the top of the plate is inline with the comb of the gun.

2. It looks too as if you'll want to remove some wood at the toe of the plate to aid in leveling it. this is normal...

- You will need; metal files, rasps, bench chisels. You can use the chisels to scrap too. I use 1/4, 1/2 inch chisels, both a rough and fine rasp.

3. test fit often, go slow and think things out as you go - blacken the inside of the plate, put it in place and gently tap it with a non marring light hammer.

- remove the plate and then remove the blackened areas with whichever tool(s) you feel will do the job.

Repeat, repeat, repeat... eventually you will have learned a lot, have the techniques figured out and have only a little bit of butt material to remove. Slow down, test fit often, get it as close to perfect as you can.

The goal is perfectly mated surfaces all around the butt plate. The bit at the end of the process, that final fitting, is generally the most niggling and you'll be heartily sick of butt plates by then.  Now might be the time to do a bit of hammer adjustment to fully mate the butt plate all around, doing so is not always required.








But you can do it!

dave

 

 

[leoparddog]

Thanks Guys,
I think I have the butt plate where I want it now.  The last 1/16" succumbed to some 12oz. encouragement and a trip through the propane torch and vice to soften it up.

So now I have ~3/16" of fat wood on each cheek of the butt stock.  I really want to take the belt sander to it and knock it down quickly but I thought I'd better ask if there is a better way.  I do have a few planes in the shop but haven't worked with them much in the last few years.

[oldtravler61]

 At this point I use scrapers and a rasp. Take it sliw less final sanding.

[L. Akers]

So now I have ~3/16" of fat wood on each cheek of the butt stock.  I really want to take the belt sander to it and knock it down quickly but I thought I'd better ask if there is a better way.  I do have a few planes in the shop but haven't worked with them much in the last few years.

Leave the power tools on the shelf.  A belt sander is one of the fastest ways I know to ruin a stock.  Use rasps and scrapers to remove wood.

[Chowmi]

[quote author=leoparddog link=topic=48207.msg477213#msg477213 date=1519871586

So now I have ~3/16" of fat wood on each cheek of the butt stock.  I really want to take the belt sander to it and knock it down quickly but I thought I'd better ask if there is a better way.  I do have a few planes in the shop but haven't worked with them much in the last few years.
[/quote]

At the risk of being repetitive:
NO.

again. 
NO. 

In case there is any ambiguity:
NO.

As stated above, you will likely ruin it.  I have tried various power tools on gun stuff, Dremel etc etc.  Never turns out well. 

Use a rasp first, then scraper as stated above.  If you plan to continue building rifles, now is a good time to get proficient with a rasp and scrapers!

It won't take as long as you think, and you will be glad of it.

Norm

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

3/16" of wood is nothing to take off with a cabinet maker's rasp like the Nicholson 49.  Scrapers take out the rasp marks.

[PPatch]

What is your all fired hurry? A drawknife, rasp and scrapers will get you there very quickly, and, in my opinion, there is far less risk of an ooops followed by lots of &%$#&*'s.

There is some finesse involved in shaping a buttstock, a lot of decisions and constant checking to blend the various elements and achieve a nice result. Quick biting, noisey power tools can lead to instant regret. It is however completely your choice, and if you feel you are a unerring qualified expert with a belt sander then go for it.

dp

[leoparddog]

I looked around the shop and found a large Nicholson rasp that belonged to my father and I had a couple of smaller ones.  First time I've used the big rasp - the teeth are huge and yes it did make short work of the fat wood.  I still have more to do here, rasping, sanding and scraping, then finish sanding out the marks were I clipped the butt plate with the rasps, but I'm happy with how it turned out so far.  There is one tiny gap that I think will fill in with the sanding and finishing.

Thanks everyone.

[L. Akers]

Just an observation.  Not counting the cheekpiece, the widest part of the stock should be the buttplate.  Your last photo looks like your stock swells out from the buttplate to about the front of the return and then narrows toward the wrist.  Lay a straight-edge along the side of the stock.  It should touch the stock from the buttplate to the back of the lock moulding.  High and low spots will be evident.

[leoparddog]

Thanks,  I knew it was fat still there but it was 10pm and I was done for the night.  I'll get back to work on it in a few days.  You did answer a question I didn't ask though.  How much to take down?
A straight line from the edge of the plate to the lock moulding?  Not the wrist?

[smallpatch]

If you have cast off, it will only be a straight line from heel to front of comb.