Author Topic: Vinegar strength for Vinegar iron stain  (Read 2406 times)

Aquafortitude

  • Guest
Vinegar strength for Vinegar iron stain
« on: February 26, 2018, 11:35:19 PM »
Hi,
I’m new here and new to building.
I recently received a Southern Mountain Rifle kit from Jim Kibler.
I thought I would get going on a batch of Vinegar iron stock stain while I proceed with the assembly. I plan on cutting up a old horse shoe I tilled up in the garden for the iron.
When I was shopping for vinegar I found that “Cleaning Vinegar” is 10% acetic acid and regular vinegar is 5%. Following my usual rule that if just enough is good then more is better, I bought the 10% cleaning type.
So, my question is, is the 10% ok and what kind of time frame should I expect until the solution is ready?

Thanks!
« Last Edit: February 27, 2018, 02:42:44 PM by Aquafortitude »

Offline bob in the woods

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4555
Re: Vinegar strength for Vinegar iron stain
« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2018, 12:11:14 AM »
I like to use the 10 % myself.  Also, many smaller pieces of iron i.e. more surface area , is better than a large chunk.  I've used my mix after a couple of months with good results, but longer is better in my experience. I'm still using the same batch I started 3 years ago, and I added vinegar until the iron was gone. I just pour off the clear stuff , and bottle it [ keep the lid loose ] then keep the batch working.  Kind of like a sour dough starter  ;D

Maineshops

  • Guest
Re: Vinegar strength for Vinegar iron stain
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2018, 01:46:59 AM »
I did a viniger, sreel wool solution and the results were a ugly grey color. What did I do wrong? Dan

Offline Algae

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 197
Re: Vinegar strength for Vinegar iron stain
« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2018, 03:16:47 AM »
Did you wash the steel wool in alcohol first?

A lot of that stuff has oil in it.

Al Jenkins

Aquafortitude

  • Guest
Re: Vinegar strength for Vinegar iron stain
« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2018, 04:53:25 AM »
Thanks for the info. The old horseshoe is cut up and I’m ready to give it a try.

Offline Long John

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1618
  • Give me Liberty or give me Death
Re: Vinegar strength for Vinegar iron stain
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2018, 05:05:21 AM »
Aqua,

It doesn't matter, either will work.  The 10% acetic acid solution might dissolve the iron a little faster and will carry more iron in solution.  That will save you applying quite so many coats of stain.  I usually use the lower strength, just in case my dog Ollie tangles with a skunk again, so I generally apply stain three or four times, waiting a day or so between applications.  No need to "blush" or heat the stock after applying vinegar/iron stain.  The acetic acid will evaporate at room temperature and leave behind the iron ions which acquire oxygen from the air and turn into iron oxides.  If you stock does not smell like salad the vinegar is gone and the iron is capturing oxygen from the air.

I would NOT use steel wool as an iron source.  The steel that is used to make steel wool is really crappy stuff that has all sorts of alloying metals mixed in, some of which turn green and black as oxides.  Not good if your want a reddish brown gun.

Maineshop, wash the stock with pure vinegar a couple of times and then let it sit for a few days.  You might have gotten a lot of ferrous oxide and it needs some more time to convert to ferric oxide.  That can happen if the iron ion concentration gets too high in your stain.  Put some of your stain on a wood scrap - let it dry and then put some oil on it.  You might find the wood is actually more of a chocolate brown - a mixture of ferrous oxide (black) and ferric oxide (red).  If you stock doesn't redden up in a few days get a bottle of hydrogen peroxide and wash the stock with that.  Hydrogen peroxide is a strong oxygen donor and can be used to "force" the iron to adopt the ferric oxide form.  However, some pieces of wood just want to be brown and its really hard to get them to redden-up.

I hope this helps.  And, yes, I was a chemistry major in college.

Best Regards,

JMC
John Cholin

.ood

Maineshops

  • Guest
Re: Vinegar strength for Vinegar iron stain
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2018, 04:22:28 PM »
Long John......
I haven’t done the stock yet. Just trying it on scrap. The wool alloy is likely the issue. I have some wrought iron and I’ll make some shavings out of that and try again. Thanks.
We use hydrogen peroxide and baking soda for the skunk problem. Works well.
It’s sure helpful to have you folks with strong technical backgrounds to help the group. Dan

Offline Long John

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1618
  • Give me Liberty or give me Death
Re: Vinegar strength for Vinegar iron stain
« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2018, 12:15:04 AM »
Dan,

As a side note, skunk scent is a type of chemical compound called an "ester".  Esters are the combination of an alcohol and an organic acid.  If you mix an ester with a stronger acid the ester changes composition, shedding the old acid half for the new acid half.  That changes the scent AND makes it more soluble.  Vinegar and a little shampoo is all anyone needs for a skunked dog.  Once and done - no more stink.

Now if I could only get Ollie to agree that no more stink was a good thing!

JMC
John Cholin

Maineshops

  • Guest
Re: Vinegar strength for Vinegar iron stain
« Reply #8 on: February 28, 2018, 03:55:57 PM »
Thanks for the tip John. Our old dog don’t stray far from the house so hopefully he’ll behave. Dan

JB2

  • Guest
Re: Vinegar strength for Vinegar iron stain
« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2018, 07:49:58 PM »
great knowledge (as usual) here on the forum.  Just brewing up another batch of vinegaroon.  Thanks!

Long John, maybe Ollie just like the smell of vinegar?  Reminds him of gun-building ;D