.520 ball

[Duane Harshaw]

does anyone use a .520 ball in there .54 caliber rifles I have been thinking of trying it for quicker loading?

[rich pierce]

Under Canadian influence I’ve gone to tighter combos and now find a ball 0.010” undersized is “loose” and susceptible to blowing patches. I’m sure a .520 ball would slide down with finger pressure bu5 accuracy beyond 40 yards might be iffy.

[Flint62Smoothie]

I have always heard about using a thicker patch with a smaller ball, but have not yet tried it yet for myself. However, 3 of my good friends shoot their 54s for hunting loads w/ 0.520” roundballs over 0.020” or thicker patches and they LOVE it for hunting loads. They also shoot primitive muzzleloading snowshoe biathlon shoots and also do very well w/ those same loads.

FWIW 520 RBs can be bought in bulk from Eddie May of Chatsworth, Georgia.

[Hungry Horse]

Almost everyone that shoots a Santa Fe Hawken rifle shoots a .520 ball, because the barrel is marked .54 cal., but the bore is actually .530.

  Hungry Horse

[Daryl]

I tried a grossly undersized ball in my .69, just for kicks. It was a .662" ball and to tighten it up a bit in my bore, I used a doubled .017" patch- thus .034" per side.
Thus .662" + .034" +.034" = .696" = .730", thus actually having .013" compression in each groove.
Here's the results, a 5-shot group at 50 yards, plus a flier- me flinching.  I was getting a bit punch-drunk (no I wasn't drinking punch) by the time I shot this group.
The group wasn't too bad, being about 1 1/4" for the 5 shots. The patches were burned and badly scorched from blow-by, but the accuracy actually wasn't that bad. No wiping needed.
I used a water-based lube, being Blue Thunder Winter Windshield Washer Fluid + a couple ounces of Neetsfoot oil per quart. Shaken, then poured over pre-cut patches, soaked, then gently squeezed out. The patches are VERY wet in the tin.


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Thus, if you use a thick enough patch, it might work. Trouble with the smaller bores, is increased pressure.  The above load(82gr.)develops about the same amount of pressure as perhaps 60gr. 2F in your .54 as it is only putting these balls out at a guessed-at 1,100fps. So, whatever charge develops 1,100fps in your .54- THAT is the equivalent load to what I just did. Due to this low pressure, I was able to get away without building up fouling.  If using a decent charge in a .54, you may not be so lucky.  Experimentation is FUN - have at it.
The higher the pressure, the more fouling you will get with loose loads.

The day I shot that target, I also shot this one but with a tighter combination, but still, a well-undersized ball, being .675" and pure lead, in the .690 bore.  It is a 10 shot group with the same rifle.
The heavy denim patch, is the 12 ounce I normally use in this rifle. It measures .030" compressed hard in my calipers, .025" compressed hard in my mic.
Thus, .675" + .030 + .030 = .735" in the .704 groove diameter. If you use the .025" mic, measurement, that is .725" in the .704" groove diameter barrel. They are tight, but not difficult to load with the rifle's rod. That hickory stick tapers 3/8" to 7/16" and has been used since the rifle was made in 1986.





I also noted this load shot 2" at 100 meters, but that target is missing. Can't find it.
As well, there is a mistake in the recorded data on the target. The lower group should be 1.11" as the ball size was not the normal .684" that I used to use & still use for 'accuracy' work.
For trail walks, the .675" is easier loading - with the heavy patch. A friend gave me some 14 ounce Denim that was a bit too snug in his .54 with a .535" ball. I am now using that material, that runs .030" mic'd and .035" compressed in the calipers.  With the .675" ball, loading is sung, and quite nice. Accuracy matches the a-fore mentioned .684" and .030" denim.

[hanshi]

Since I tend to lean in the direction of fairly tight loads, ball is never smaller than .010" under bore diameter and sometimes larger, depending on the rifle.  The accuracy with looser loads is usually fine but the patches often show scorching, burn-through or holes.  With a tight enough load the patches don't show these signs and accuracy is as good or better.

In smoothbores I've seen little advantage in using the tight loads, unlike rifles.  The smoothbore I own has a tight bore - about .610" - .615" I am told.  A .600" ball and a .012" - .015" patch is firm but not tight.  Seating still requires a short starter and accuracy seems about as good as I can manage.  So I suspect I'm using a ball approximately .015" under bore diameter; could be more or less, just don't know.

[EC121]

I use a .526 ball from TOTW and a .023 canvas patch with a mink oil/ coconut oil mix in my .54 Colerain barrel.  It loads easily and the patches don't have any blowby with 85gr. of 2F.  The deep round bottom rifling needs a thick patch.  I also started using a .480 ball in my .50cal. rifles and a .595 in my .62cal. rifle.  Daryl is rubbing off on me.  Had to try the .62 rifle.   

[SCLoyalist]

I'm experimenting with a .520 ball in a .54 Colerain barrel.   Results were good in a woodswalk, still too be determined in paper punching at 100 yards.   The two patch materials I've found that load pretty easily and maintain their integrity when fired are a double layer of linen (0.015 thick, doubled to 0.030) and some 10.5oz bull denim (nominally 0.032" thickness).    I got started on this experiment because patches for  .527 or .530 RBs were being recovered blown or shredded more frequently, and also weren't all that easy to load.

FWIW, a .54 Colerain barrel should have a land-to-land diameter right at .540", and a groove-to-groove diameter of .572.   With a .520 ball and 0.060" of patching, the .572" of barrel is getting filled up with patching under some moderate compression.    I'm content with the amount of effort it takes to seat the ball, and recovered patches, especially the linen, are in good enough shape where (just for grins ) they could be reused.

[bob in the woods]

In the woods here, almost all hunting shots are within 50 yards or less. My .54 rifle gives up very little practical accuracy when I switch to my hunting season .527 ball.   My usual .535 ball can be difficult to load in the cold temperatures common during deer season. 

[Darkhorse]

I have shoulder problems and each year/week it gets harder to start my old combo of .530 and .018 ticking patch, and when it's cold and dry even harder. So this past season I tried a thinner .015 patch with the same .530 balls. The heaviest charge I tried was 80 grains of 3f with no burn through, no cleaning, and excellent accuracy. This was with LeHigh Valley which I will not use for hunting.
My hunting load was 75 grains 3fg Goex, .015 patch, Bore butter lube and .530 round ball. This combo started and seated sooooo easy. I shot an 8 point at 60 yards and a doe at about 30 yards and both were pass throughs.
The attached photo was shot with 60 grs. 3f and LeHigh Valley. My hunting load shoots just as good.
This may not be a 100 yard load but my shots are always less than 75 yards, mostly less than 50 in reality.

[Smokey Plainsman]

I need to try some .520 balls in my .54 caliber horse pistol as the .530s I have are a bear to load even with a 0.10 patch.

[Daryl]

Almost everyone that shoots a Santa Fe Hawken rifle shoots a .520 ball, because the barrel is marked .54 cal., but the bore is actually .530.

  Hungry Horse

I have a piece of one of those barrels on my .54 pistol, and yes, they are .530". I use a .526" ball and about .017/8" patch. This seems to work well.

[sonny]

I think hornaday makes .520 round ball.

[Flint62Smoothie]

I think Hornady makes .520 round ball.

They do ...

[Hungry Horse]

I have a .520 mold made by Palmeto Armory, that is a good mold.

  Hungry Horse

[Daryl]

Palmeto is the make of my .684" RB mould. Looks just like a Lyman mould & fits large Lyman handles.

[scottmc]

We had this same discussion this past weekend at the union county frozen toe.  Allen Martin said he shoots .520 all the time but he clarified he's  a hunter and isnt looking for extreme accuracy but more of an easier to start ball.  Bobby Hoyt somewhat agreed and said that they will shoot decent.  However, a few of us agreed that if u want to win in shoots, you better tighten up.  Having said that, I'm  going to try a few for curiosity sake.

[thecapgunkid]

It is all I use with my two fifty fours.  Greg Dixon was kind enough to mic out my patch at .025 because I don't own a mic.  IN street english that's a thick denim patch.

I cannot get him, however, to join me at a trail walk and hold the front end of the barrel steady so I don't flinch.

Other than that, at the bench, the load with 52 grains FF will group tightly at 25 and 50 yards.  The patches all look perfect.



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[Daryl]

Sorry to disagree thecapgunkid, but in my opinion, all of those patches have burn and scorch marks from gas blowby.

A .520" ball, imho, for that thickness patch, is too small. There should be no brown scorches or black burn spots.

[thecapgunkid]

 Daryl...Sorry to disagree thecapgunkid, but in my opinion, all of those patches have burn and scorch marks from gas blowby.

That's what I said after the first five shots, even tho there were no tears in the cloth.  Changed my tune when I had to pull the breech and empty a dryballed round.  That discoloration is likely because I lube patches with bore cleaner during the summer and it drags the gunk down with it before coming back out in its blaze of glory.  The coloring wasn't as dark on the unfired patch, so I stopped watching it and still dunno why.

That being said, I tend to monitor the group rather than think too long on the combination.  Good, bad or indifferent, that's the load I'll stay with.  Thanks for the thought, tho

[Daryl]

NP - the scorching from flame blow-by are the brown scorch marks evident on the patches, not from 'gunk' being pushed down.

Even though there is blow- by, those loads can still allow constant loading and firing without wiping. Usually though, a tighter

fitting load will shoot more accurately, but if what you are doing is good enough - good for you.

[thecapgunkid]

Daryl...the scorching from flame blow-by are the brown scorch marks evident on the patches, not from 'gunk' being pushed down.

Nope.  I almost wish I could believe you but my patches always come out with that brownish tint whether shot out or pulled out during cleaning.  It even appears during the off season when I pull the gun out of the closet and clean it.  I don't even know why ( probably in the lube/cloth I use) and I do know what gas blow by or rust look like because I have had it happen when sighting guns in or letting them sit idle for too long. 

Besides, writing these posts is more than I have thought about this.  So the only thing I wish more than believing you would be getting to shoot with you.

Anyway, it looks like The Duane has some good advice here.