linen thread failing

[Mark Elliott]

I have had a problem with waxed linen thread failing in the leather after a number of years on some of my pouches.   All the involved bags where stained after assembly with either vinegar and iron  or aqua fortis and finished with Mink oil.   Could one of those finishes be causing the thread to fail, or could there be another problem?     I think all the thread that failed was Tandy natural lined thread.   I now use a French made linen thread that is better quality.   Even if the thread is already waxed,  I wax it again with beeswax. 

[Marcruger]

Hi Mark,

I would bet heavily on the acids eating the thread. I personally finish the leather pieces first, then sew them. I know vinegar was used in the old days, but there may be choices that are less acidic now. AF?  I am not sure that is a good idea. If it will stain horn and wood, I would think it is harsh on leather. The wax is not hurting anything. Linen thread beats any synthetic with leather. Synthetic saws through the leather over time. Try switching to a different dye, and finishing before sewing. I then just touch up the edges and any slips. I hope this helps,  Marc

[Hungry Horse]

Are you kidding? Of course it’s the acidic stains you’re using. Linen is tough and will last centuries if it isn’t compromised by exposure to chemicals that weaken,or attack it. By the way the agua fortis will eventually damage the leather as well.

  Hungry Horse

[Mark Elliott]

I have already switched to staining before assembly as it is easier to get consistent results.    I wasn't sure about the acid and linen.   I have been told that leather is naturally acidic.  At one point I neutralized, but that caused the leather to dry rot.   I stopped that and the leather seems to have held up Ok.   It is just the linen that hasn't held up so well.   

[Marcruger]

There is so much to know and learn with leather. I am blessed that others share with me. I prefer to not reinvent the wheel. 🙂👍🏼
A suggestion if I may?  Fiebings “chocolate” Pro (oil) dye does a pretty good job of copying the vinegaroon shade. I cut it with pure neatsfoot oil and rub it in with thin coats using sheepskin scraps.

The learher seems happier and more flexible with this method.

I am no expert!  Just sharing what others shared with me.

God bless, Marc

[James Rogers]

Mark,
I haven't used the Tandy thread but I have seen the waxed that wally world used to sell. I would think they were both of Chinese origin? I would  get rid of the nitric acid for leather. I've used it on some thick leather pieces but never with stitching.  Cant say thats the culprit but it may be. Vinegroon can be over neutralized like you mention and is worse than leaving it as is. Good you have changed to coloring your leather prior to construction. Try some  Barbour's thread or Campbell Randall has some cheaper Hungarian made spools that are  fairly good.   I also don't recommend prewaxed thread...at least the prewaxed I have seen. Another good option is to use hemp thread and roll your own.

[Jerry]

I have used, with success, Fiebings Pro Dyes. I purchase the dark and thin it with denatured alcohol to my liking. I use linen thread, but wax it myself. I have also started dying certain pieces of the the bag before sewing together. Some areas of the bag can be lighter as to simulate wear. Jerry

[Hungry Horse]

Lincoln leather dyes are far superior to Fiebings. Once you try them you will never use Fiebings again.

  Hungry Horse

[thecapgunkid]

Mark

You probably have a couple of solutions at your disposal.  I've tried 'em all and have not ever had a thread problem in any of my shoes or gunbelts or hunting bags and sheaths.

1. Use a water based dye on your leather after you have run a sample to see if it meets your eye.

2. Try to get away from beeswax as a stand alone.  Granted it's a convention.  Naval stores will sell pine tar and pine resin.  Mix them 50-50 at first over low, outdoor heat and add either beeswax or some mink or neatsfoot oil.  Less resin makes it more runny and the consistency of dough is best.  That's called COAD and shoe findings vendors will usually have some on hand.  Shoemakers were known to keep several balls in a small tub of water while they stitched.  It'll naturally get your thread a brown color.  If you use a sharpened and polished awl with smaller holes the friction of the stitch will draw it into the leather and the stuff won't rot nearly as fast.  It's the reason the Turks discovered the coloring on a meershaum pipe when they worked with it and handled the pipe.

3.  Make your holes smaller by not using a punch, and avoid that combined awl stitcher tool that mimics a sewing machine stitch.  Most rotting or wearing thread happens because of the friction between the thread and the leather when the leather is allowed to move around in the hole.  It has little or nothing to do with the dye.  Sewing machine stitches are notorious for not being well closed or creating a hold-fast.  Make yourself a finely tapered and polished awl and stitch with two needles.  Fuzz the end of the linen thread about three inches back.  Divide it into two pointy ends.  Twist them both toward you tightly.  Then roll them backwards on your thigh with a lot of pressure and suddenly reverse direction rolling them away from tyou.  This will create a point in the thread.  Then  you can use smaller harness needles hence smaller holes.

4.  White ain't so bad.  Dye the leather first.

Do we have any videos on the forum about stitching the old time way?

Hope this helps
Capgun