Author Topic: Leather pliability (Read 9097 times)

David Rase · « **on:** June 07, 2009, 06:20:51 PM »

How do you guys soften up your vegetable tanned leather when making a shooting bag? Eveytime I make a bag I end up with stiff leather instead of a nice supple pliable piece of leather. I am using 2 to 3 oz vegetable tanned tooling leather, cut the pieces out, sew them up, wet the leather to turn the bag right side out, dye the leather and then apply multiple coats of a leather treatment like Lexoil. I have handled a lot of bags made of vegetable tanned leather and I can't seem to get the pliability in my bags that others get. Help?
DMR

BrownBear · « **Reply #1 on:** June 07, 2009, 07:14:56 PM »

Good question, Dave. I hunt mostly brushy country, and if the leather is even a little stiff it scrapes on the brush, and in the dead silence it sounds like fingernails on a chalkboard. I've resorted to soft leathers like elk, deer or Tandy's Deertand for my hunting bags with glued-in linings for stiffness. It's a work-around, but I truly prefer the look and feel of veg tanned.

James Rogers · « **Reply #2 on:** June 07, 2009, 08:00:16 PM »

Commercial vegetable tanned leather not only varies in thickness (ounces) but also varies in how supple it is. Temper is the term if I am not mistaken. This varies with the hide and I always like to hand pick each piece if possible. I have a piece of fine calf here now that is like butter and another the same weight thickness that is almost as stiff as a credit card.

Eric Fleisher · « **Reply #3 on:** June 07, 2009, 11:22:17 PM »

Dave,

I use Mink oil to soften my bags after dying. I work in a small amount of oil once a week or every two weeks for a month, to get them softened up. I get my leather from Wickett and Craig. I think it is better quality material than Tandy and it does not get as stiff. Frank Willis uses pure neats foot oil.

Eric

G. Elsenbeck · « **Reply #4 on:** June 07, 2009, 11:33:08 PM »

Dave, here's something that Iv'e been doing lately on the last batch of bags I've made. As I rough cut the pieces I plan on using to make up a bag I begin using the 'muscle' effort on each piece. What I'm trying to do is take away most of the stiffness associated with raw veg tanned leather. I will rub, stretch with my hands and with also rub the pieces (the suede side) over a piece of wood that roughly resembles the end of a baseball bat. I used exclusively 3 1/2 to 4 oz veg tan and like Capt Jas I usually get them from the local Tandy Leather store. After working a piece shortly you will begin to feel the suppleness to your liking. After doing this I will final trim to each piece according to my pattern and then I will dye them PRIOR to sewing up. You will also know that by 'muscling' the leather the grain side will start picking up some 'character'. Again, after dyeing the grain side and when dried to your satisfaction, work the pieces between your hands which helps in suppleness. Once the bag is completed I work into 'pure' neatsfoot oil by hand. Others also like using a good mink oil too. After that dries, you may add a good polish of your color by hand and buff later.
I also note that quenching the bags in water after sewing them to aid in turning outside out 'adds' to the stiffness or temper of the completed bag. By eliminating the quenching idea and using more muscle to turn from inside out, you will keep the suppleness you've already worked in and add more character to the grain. You will notice your bags start looking and feeling older and feeling alot better.
Dave, if you send me a pm with your address I will be glad to send you a couple of small pieces of before and after so you will see and feel the differences betwee the two.
Gary

jasontn · « **Reply #5 on:** June 07, 2009, 11:55:01 PM »

i break my stiff hides over the end of an old tee ball bat clamped in a vise before i use them. a little trick i learned too was when i wet them to turn them i let them soak for a bit in the water and i add a little downy fabric softener to it.

G. Elsenbeck · « **Reply #6 on:** June 08, 2009, 12:09:43 AM »

Jason, well said. Thats how I 'break' the dry leather only I don't bother to use the water step. Haven't tried the water softener though.
Gary

jasontn · « **Reply #7 on:** June 08, 2009, 01:06:52 AM »

i learned that a while back with some stuff that was nearly impossible to turn dry, works good for me. i made some smaller pouches with stiff leather and just didnt have the room to work them dry.

G. Elsenbeck · « **Reply #8 on:** June 08, 2009, 01:46:23 AM »

Yes, leathers (veg tan) thicker than 4 oz will be a bear to turn dry, especially small sizers (e.g. 6 by 6). That's why I generally stay with 4 oz or a little lighter. After all how thick does a basic hunting bag need to be? It seems alot of the original survivors were in the 2 1/2 to 4 oz and have lasted this long.
I also find IMHO if I break them in before I do any sewing it will turn alot easier dry due to the fact we've already built into a degree of suppleness not to mention the built in character to the leather (creases, crinkly, etc). Another benefit is how easier the hand will enter the bag vs. a stiff front panel. Certainly over a long time the veg tan with more use will break itself in, but it seems some buyer prefer to have some 'break in' already done.
Gary

BrianH · « **Reply #9 on:** June 10, 2009, 03:52:05 AM »

hey there G.Elsenbeck
you said you get your stuff at the local Tandy leather is there one in our area anymore. I live in westmoreland.I thought they had all closed. by the way nice looking bags

Brian H

G. Elsenbeck · « **Reply #10 on:** June 10, 2009, 04:04:05 AM »

Brian, hello neighbor and thanks for the compliment. Yes, local for us means driving to Syracuse.
I was beginning to think no one in this area is interested in BP or building muzzleloading items.
Gary

BrianH · « **Reply #11 on:** June 10, 2009, 04:25:08 AM »

yeah thats what I consider local to is it still on salina st, I know that it closed years ago.
did it reopen?
Brian H

G. Elsenbeck · « **Reply #12 on:** June 10, 2009, 04:29:20 AM »

Brian, it's still open. Been visiting there for some quite time now, as recently at December. I don't recall it closing.
Gary

BrianH · « **Reply #13 on:** June 10, 2009, 04:42:54 AM »

it was about 18 years ago tandy closed it then the owner ran it without the tandy name for a short while then it closed.I didn't know it had reopened . thanks for the info.

Brian H

JCKelly · « **Reply #14 on:** June 10, 2009, 10:54:17 PM »

Eric--doesn't Wickett & Craig have something like a 5-cows' worth minimum order? I understand they make good stuff, don't know how to get in small quantities, e.g. 1 or 1/2 Cow-worth.

Somewhere I have an o-l-d photo of that tannery. Grandfather used to work there, retired in 1951. I have fine childhood memories of the finishing room. Loved that smell. Not sure anyone else did . . . the cod liver oil, I think

Eric Fleisher · « **Reply #15 on:** June 10, 2009, 11:31:11 PM »

JC - They moved to Curwensville, PA in 1990.

I buy it by the side or double shoulder. I have never experienced a minimum order. Here is the link to their website. Sometimes I have to wait a few weeks for a double shoulder, but sides usually ship within a week. They also split the hides to what ever thickness you want. I like the quality of their product and I like doing buisness with a company in my home state.

http://www.wickett-craig.com/pricing.html

G. Elsenbeck · « **Reply #16 on:** June 10, 2009, 11:43:17 PM »

Eric, that's good to hear, no minimum! Are their pricing decent or do they quote by the sq ft?

Gary

Chuck Burrows · « **Reply #17 on:** June 11, 2009, 12:39:54 AM »

Pricing for W & C and is normally by the square foot - as noted by Eric they will split their hides to whatever thickness you like: dependent on type it's either 50 cents a foot (saddle skirting) or free (tooling/holster). There are no minimums 1-800-TANNERY is their number -

The difference:
Tooling/holster is a "drier" tannage
Skirting is a bit oiler thus more pliable, but still tools great
Both take dye wonderfully - you can also get both types pre-dyed in Chestnut, Brown, or Black. Russet/Natural is also available

Currently they are running a sale until 7/31/09
Skirting - $100.00 a side - avg 22-24 sq ft 8/10 oz (see note above re: splitting)
Tooling/Holster - $90.00 a side - avg 22-24 sq ft 8/10 oz
Tooling/Holster - $50.00 dbl shoulder - avg 12-14 sq ft 8/10 oz

As a full-time professional leather crafter it's all I've used now for the last 10 years - not only is it MUCH better than the Tandy Imports, but you're keeping one of only three tanneries left in the USA going........

James Rogers · « **Reply #18 on:** June 11, 2009, 01:00:20 AM »

W&C leather is heads above a Tandy type best import.

G. Elsenbeck · « **Reply #19 on:** June 11, 2009, 01:10:22 AM »

I'm convinced guys, especially good ol USA. And I'll be taking advantage of their special by the end of July. Great info all and thanks for sharing.
Gary

JCKelly · « **Reply #20 on:** June 11, 2009, 01:12:41 AM »

Eric--Microsoft Streets & Trips shows Wickett & Craig, 120 Cooper Rd, just exactly where Grampa used to work. As that old tannery building, last I saw it in 1995, was not exactly state-of-the-art, I'd not be surprized if W&C razed it & kept some of the experienced employees. Regardless, they are providing work for assorted 2nd, 3rd & 4th cousins of mine. Go W&C!

If you happen to visit there, let me know & I'll provide you minor items of local lore & terminology. Many of the people are of Scotch-Irish descent & temperament. Those of Italian heritage are still quite aware of the, uh, differences in viewpoints early in the last century. Small town, people have very long, long memories. Grandfather was still rather angry about what the British did to one of our family during the Revolution.

News:

Author Topic: Leather pliability (Read 9097 times)

BrownBear

jasontn

jasontn

BrianH

BrianH

BrianH