Author Topic: Inletting fiddley stuff?  (Read 2475 times)

Offline Scota4570

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Inletting fiddley stuff?
« on: July 05, 2018, 09:43:00 PM »
Any specific tips on this?  I have a heck of time getting it perfect.  Especially little corners and inside curves.  I mostly use black marker for spotting stuff.  I am using three 1/16" pins to go straight down.  I scribe the contour with a metal scribe and cut base on that.  I have a draft on the metal inlay.   I have dozens of chisels and gouges of various sizes and shapes already.  Should I make sub miniature versions and be working under magnification?   It can not be as hard as I am making it.  I am working on a copy of the attached image, one of the side pieces specifically.



Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Inletting fiddley stuff?
« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2018, 10:09:00 PM »
Magnification is important for me these days. At least 4X now. Sharp tools as well. It's possible you're not seeing your scribed line well. I use a pencil, no doubt where the line is that way.
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline rich pierce

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Re: Inletting fiddley stuff?
« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2018, 10:17:41 PM »
One trick I use when possible is reverse engineering. I cut out the patterns using the very chisels I will use for inletting.
Andover, Vermont

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: Inletting fiddley stuff?
« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2018, 10:21:10 PM »
Mike - a man of few words, but important ones.

I too use a sharp pointed pencil to draw around the inlay, then using sharp thin chisels, I cut INSIDE the lines.  I use a very fine pointed knife to surgically remove the wood where it is too tight, indicated by the transfer of inletting black.
The pictures following are of a first rifle built in my shop by a friend.  It is a TOW kit, I think, as the wood was not up to Chambers' quality.  Harder wood would have yielded more precision.  The two chisels you see used here are a 1/8" wide flat made from bandsaw steel, and an ancient 1/4" gouge, which I see could have used some sharpening.
First thing to do, after you're ready with stock prep, is to locate the position and screw it down to the stock.  Now you can trace the outline with certainty.  Remove the inlay, cut inside the lines, stabbing in full depth.  Cut a relief on the inside of the inlet, and then remove the ground with a gouge across the grain, cutting toward the centre - never toward the edge.  Apply black transfer, screw it down again, remove it and pare away where it is too tight.
Again, this is his first effort, and he did fairly well, I'd say.



























This is the same Isaac Haines box you have illustrated.   If there is a secret or key, it's patience, sharp chisels, and patience.  Patience helps.
D. Taylor Sapergia
www.sapergia.blogspot.com

Art is not an object.  It is the excitement inspired by the object.

Offline PPatch

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Re: Inletting fiddley stuff?
« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2018, 10:31:41 PM »
Folks have differing methods for inletting, there is no one perfect method. I use an exacto knife to cut in around my inlays, slowly and carefully while attempting to emulate that draft I've put to the inlay. After that I use a 60 degree V gouge just inside my knife outline and then various widths of #3 sweep gouges to slice up to the inside of my knife cut outline. Then comes a lot of deepening and leveling, and that involves lamp black on the underside of the part I am inletting.

Those are my general techniques and they work for me. I have several widths of #3's, a 1/8", 1/4 and a 1/2 inch and use them constantly, including as scrapers, when inletting. They must be razor sharp and I hone the edge as soon as it begins to tug or I find myself using increasing force to get it to do its work.

Here is a forearm inlay (skid plate) I finished yesterday. Note the entry pipe in the upper left, that went in today.



dave
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Offline Craig Wilcox

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Re: Inletting fiddley stuff?
« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2018, 03:51:31 AM »
Beautiful work by all, and they all have a few things in common:
SHARP tools, and the right tool for the job.  Some might tackle inlets slightly, but all the tools are honed sharp.
PATIENCE - Seldom in a woman, never in a man!
But patience is the key ingredient in most longrifle work, and I am guilty of impatience just like most of us.

Do plan ahead, and have all the necessary tools on hand.
Craig Wilcox
We are all elated when Dame Fortune smiles at us, but remember that she is always closely followed by her daughter, Miss Fortune.

Offline Mauser06

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Re: Inletting fiddley stuff?
« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2018, 06:11:09 AM »
I am no pro.  I am learning as I go and I haven't went real far....

But, I will echo the others.  Sharp polished tool edges make a big difference. 

Someone mentioned wood quality and hardness. Sometimes we have what we have. I have a stock in the vise now that some wood is OK...other areas it's fairly soft and grain is finicky. Definitely more difficult to get nice clean cuts.


After fussing with carving, I sat on the deck for an afternoon sharpening and polishing my tools.  It made a difference....and I thought they were sharp prior to that. 

Offline Scota4570

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Re: Inletting fiddley stuff?
« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2018, 07:50:31 PM »
Well not perfect but I'll take it.  Maybe perfect next time.





Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Inletting fiddley stuff?
« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2018, 09:59:14 PM »
Nothing wrong with that.
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline PPatch

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Re: Inletting fiddley stuff?
« Reply #9 on: July 10, 2018, 10:20:05 PM »
A fine inletting job Scota. Be proud, it looks good!

dave
Dave Parks   /   Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

Offline oldtravler61

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Re: Inletting fiddley stuff?
« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2018, 11:00:59 PM »
   Scota that looks real good . My first one looked more like a beat up suit case !!!        Oldtravler

Offline Jay Close

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Re: Inletting fiddley stuff?
« Reply #11 on: July 11, 2018, 01:03:04 AM »
If you have ever had he opportunity to remove the patchbox or other inlay from an original long rifle, often the underside of the sheet brass is covered in directional hammer marks. I read these as the smith slightly peening the metal to close small gaps. A cosmetically "perfect" inlet is a combination of careful cutting of the wood and judicious stretching of the metal.

Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Inletting fiddley stuff?
« Reply #12 on: July 11, 2018, 03:25:47 PM »
If you have ever had he opportunity to remove the patchbox or other inlay from an original long rifle, often the underside of the sheet brass is covered in directional hammer marks. I read these as the smith slightly peening the metal to close small gaps. A cosmetically "perfect" inlet is a combination of careful cutting of the wood and judicious stretching of the metal.
Those pean marks are generally to stretch and thin brass to a more manageable thickness and to stretch the original piece big enough to be of use. There would be too much distortion to hammer the piece to fill in inletting gaps. Chances are many of the "sheet" brass parts started out as a poured sheet and needed hammered out to thin it out a bit.
 Those old time smithies didn't make sloppy inlets, they went through long apprenticeships and anybody who couldn't cut it was washed out and directed into a new trade.
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline Jay Close

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Re: Inletting fiddley stuff?
« Reply #13 on: July 13, 2018, 03:59:56 PM »
I hope nothing I wrote implied that the old, master gunsmiths of early American were unskilled or sloppy. Quite the contrary, but they did work efficiently. The rounded barrel channels for octagon barrels and the often “open” lock mortises are two conspicuous examples of time spent where it made a difference and time saved where it did not.

Thirty years as a blacksmith/whitesmith and thirteen plus years in a formal museum setting studying early American artifacts has given be some insight interpreting tool marks left on antiques. The hammer marks from peening sheet stock to thickness are distinct and different from the marks I’m addressing. These are concentrated and directional, clearly meant to push a bit of sheet stock in a specific direction. Having done this myself to close a small inletting gap, I can attest to its effectiveness.  Sloppy? Not if it improves the cosmetics of the inlet. No hold should be barred to that end. Yes, distortion can be an issue if the approach is heavy-handed, but I’m suggesting judicious punching or careful peening of the sheet. Of course, your miles may vary, but this is a useful, old timey arrow to have in your quiver.

Cheers!

Offline Scota4570

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Re: Inletting fiddley stuff?
« Reply #14 on: July 13, 2018, 07:15:01 PM »
"No hold should be barred to that end."

Covering my mistakes is part of it.  The magnitude of the mistakes gets smaller with greater skill but they still happen. There are two fixes in the picture I posted.  Making repairs invisible is a skill.  Not making mistakes is only possible by not trying.