Is this barrel safe?

[northwoodsdave]

I just received a gun I am in the process of buying.  It's a 20ga fowler, with a tapered round barrel.

The barrel in the breech area was originally round as well, but the builder created a "flat" along the side where the lock sits.  He removed quite a bit of metal to do this, and it's right in the area of the breech.  It makes for a clean presentation, but I am very concerned about the possible effect on the strength and safety of the breech and vent area.  Much of the metal that would normally hold the vent threads in place was removed as well (it has a vent liner).

I shoot ball as well as shot and this simply does not look like a safe setup.

Any help?

Dave

[ehoff]

I'd go with my gut, if it doesn't look safe then the best thing to do is not use the barrel.  I know a new barrel cost money but how much money is your life worth? Or the life of the guy who was next to you if it blows up. A couple hundred bucks is cheap compared to being mamied or killed. And last but not least cut it in half or drill a bighole in it so one else is ever temped to use it.

[J. Talbert]

Dave,
A small flat on the side a round barrel is pretty much standard procedure, to my knowledge, to allow the lock to seat flush against the barrel.  Without it, the arrangement would get pretty tricky.  The issue, I suppose, is how thin is the barrel wall at it's thinest, in that area.
Unless someone got carried away with their filing, or the barrel was thin to begin with, I wouldn't think it's a problem.

Jeff

[Kentucky Jeff]

Couple of ways to check...one is to take the gun apart and look at the rear of the breech and observe the thickness of the metal.  The other way is with a simple pair of dial calipers.  You know the bore diameter right?  Measure the outside dimension of the barrel at your points of concern and its a simple matter of subtraction and division to ascertain the amount of metal in the wall...  Take the measurements on one unaltered axis for your reference and then its easy to figure out the altered dimensions.

Keep in mind that there is a LOT more metal in most muzzle loading barrels than really required for the pressures at which they operate. 

If you are still concerned shoot a couple of proof loads with a string on the trigger and the gun tied to a car tire from a safe distance.

[Dphariss]

I just received a gun I am in the process of buying.  It's a 20ga fowler, with a tapered round barrel.

The barrel in the breech area was originally round as well, but the builder created a "flat" along the side where the lock sits.  He removed quite a bit of metal to do this, and it's right in the area of the breech.  It makes for a clean presentation, but I am very concerned about the possible effect on the strength and safety of the breech and vent area.  Much of the metal that would normally hold the vent threads in place was removed as well (it has a vent liner).

I shoot ball as well as shot and this simply does not look like a safe setup.

Any help?

Dave

If you are in the process of buying send it back.

Dan

[Leatherbelly]

  I think if you can give the dementions, someone here can help you.With out knowing the wall thickness, it's hard to know. Like Jeff said...do the math,then ya got somethin to work with.Just my humble opinion.

[Roger Fisher]

Is she safe?? That is a loaded question.  There were trials run with I do believe a 13/16 octagon in 50 caliber trying to blow the bugger up and couldn't do it w/double-triple loads w/double triple balls!!  However if you feel she is too thin at that side flat abort the deal and go on down the road.   As was posted before w/o knowing just how thin that flat made the breech in that area no one can say with confidence that she is in fact safe!! IMHO       

[northwoodsdave]

Thanks for all the information.  I was tempted to just send the darned thing back and say to heck with it. 

I did not realize that creating a flat on the side of a round barrel was done for flintlocks, as Jeff pointed out.  Up until now, I've just been shooting percussion guns.

Also, while looking at dimensions, as he and others suggested, I realized the rather large flat is an illusion.  It's a smaller flat filed into the barrel, with a larger peice of steel very smoothly shaped and soldered into place into the flat.  This provides a larger flat surface, and looks like part of the barrel, but actually is larger than the barrel.  At first look, I thought the large flat I was seeing was actually barrel, since it almost disappears into it, but the filed area of the barrel is much smaller.

It's actually a darned interesting setup, giving you a nice flat to work with, while minimizing the actual removal of material from the barrel.

That's what I love about black powder:  it's a constant learning experience. 

I haven't gotten over to get my calipers, but the barrel at the bore end is nice and thick.  Given that the bore is tapered (and thus even thicker at the breech end)  and the cut smaller than I originally thought, I think the measuring will go well.

Thanks for all the input!  I would have likely just sent the gun back, and it might have been a long time before I realized just what a good setup this actually was!

If anyone is interested, I can get pics and send dimensions.  I didn't want to disassemble it if I was going to return it, but i think the rough dimensions I'll be getting should alleviate my concerns and I'll pull it apart then.

Dave