Author Topic: Kibler colonial .50 or .54 need help deciding  (Read 4171 times)

KILTED COWBOY

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Kibler colonial .50 or .54 need help deciding
« on: October 26, 2018, 06:28:30 PM »
Planning my first build. Trying to decide on caliber. .50 or .54
Most shooting will be target.
May get into some reenactments. May be used for some hunting but not primary.
Trying to build a rifle that would have been carried by a rev war sharp shooter. "widow maker".
Frontier farmer who joined milita when war started.
Any advise appreciated.

Offline Elnathan

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Re: Kibler colonial .50 or .54 need help deciding
« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2018, 06:33:25 PM »
Hunting what and where?
A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition -  Rudyard Kipling

Online rich pierce

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Re: Kibler colonial .50 or .54 need help deciding
« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2018, 06:44:24 PM »
The .54 will be marginally lighter.  The .50 is plenty for deer. With this rifle, recoil should not be an issue at all due to architecture.  Flip a coin!
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Offline Dave Marsh

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Re: Kibler colonial .50 or .54 need help deciding
« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2018, 07:36:42 PM »
He also offers it in .58 which is my preferred caliber and would even be a bit lighter than the .54.  Just my opinion.  Like Rich says-- flip a coin. ;D

Dave
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Online stubshaft

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Re: Kibler colonial .50 or .54 need help deciding
« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2018, 08:04:42 PM »
I was surprised at the lightness and great balance of his .58.  It also comes in smooth bore...
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Offline Daryl

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Re: Kibler colonial .50 or .54 need help deciding
« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2018, 08:08:00 PM »
Ahh -  a 24 bore smoothbore (.58) would be a fun gun.

Otherwise, I would pick a .54 in rifle.
Daryl

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ltdann

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Re: Kibler colonial .50 or .54 need help deciding
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2018, 08:13:12 PM »
.54..just seems to balance and swing better.

Offline Dennis Glazener

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Re: Kibler colonial .50 or .54 need help deciding
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2018, 09:21:23 PM »
Probably just me but I always felt a 54 shot better for me. Load it light for white tail deer and load heavy for most any larger game on continent. Plus it's lighter to carry than a 50.

Oh one more, 54 more apt to be correct for Rev War gun.
Dennis
« Last Edit: October 26, 2018, 09:23:33 PM by Dennis Glazener »
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n stephenson

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Re: Kibler colonial .50 or .54 need help deciding
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2018, 09:30:43 PM »
Probably just me but I always felt a 54 shot better for me. Load it light for white tail deer and load heavy for most any larger game on continent. Plus it's lighter to carry than a 50.

Oh one more, 54 more apt to be correct for Rev War gun.
Dennis
Dennis, funny you should say that. I have always been partial to .54 calibers and .40s as well. I too feel that I have had better shooting rifles in .54 than .50. Thought it might just be me ;). I have a friend that shoots very well with his .54 too.

KILTED COWBOY

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Re: Kibler colonial .50 or .54 need help deciding
« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2018, 09:32:16 PM »
Thanks, that's the advice I was looking for.
More concerned with correct caliber for rev war rifle than for hunting.
As for hunting everything is bigger in Texas...except the deer.

Offline flinchrocket

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Re: Kibler colonial .50 or .54 need help deciding
« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2018, 10:13:09 PM »
Just to throw a wrench in, I would prefer the mountain rifle kit in 40 cal for punching paper and the colonial kit in 54 for everything else.(58 if I thought I would ever make it to Alaska)
« Last Edit: October 26, 2018, 10:18:55 PM by flinchrocket »

Offline Elnathan

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Re: Kibler colonial .50 or .54 need help deciding
« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2018, 10:21:10 PM »
Either .50 or .54 will work for a Revolutionary period rifle.

However, .50 is probably closer to the average Rev War caliber than is .54, IF we restrict our sample to guns that we know haven't been used hard (i.e., those that were brought to Europe and ended up in collections) and period sources (George Hanger, most notably). Distribution is something like two in the .60 caliber range (Schreit and Lion & Lamb rifle), .52 (one Oerter rifle), a .42, and four or five in the .45-.49 range, IIRC. Interestingly, the two really big ones are a rifle that was built just after the French and Indian War and had been in use for at least 14 years prior to being taken to England, and one that had been modified for military use with a cut down barrel, iron ramrod, and a bayonet.

I believe that the .55 caliber as average Pre-Rev/Revolutionary period caliber figure is derived from just averaging the rifles in Shumway's Rifles of Colonial America, and doesn't take into account age or condition. Plus, at least three rifles, RCA 42, 43, and 140 turn out to be .02-03" smaller than listed, and we ought to consider the possibility that Shumway similarly overestimated others he examined.

I do think that some of the surviving big-bored rifles were made that way - they'd be un-managably heavy if much smaller in the bore - but others I do think have been enlarged over the years, as their barrels are pretty thin or they look pretty unpleasant to shoot in the caliber they are now. I think it quite possible that the majority of rifles were originally in the .45-50 range, with a smaller number of big-bores made specifically with war, bear or buffalo in mind, and that usage and refreshing in period, the early 20th century habit of reboring originals to restore them to shooting condition, and the tendency of overestimate bores/overlook funneling at the muzzle have all contrived to push the perceived average up a bit while blurring any noticeable distinction between big and average bores. That is my theory at the moment, anyway...
« Last Edit: October 26, 2018, 10:40:12 PM by Elnathan »
A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition -  Rudyard Kipling

Offline Obi2winky

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Re: Kibler colonial .50 or .54 need help deciding
« Reply #12 on: October 26, 2018, 11:45:03 PM »
Planning my first build. Trying to decide on caliber. .50 or .54
Most shooting will be target.
May get into some reenactments. May be used for some hunting but not primary.
Trying to build a rifle that would have been carried by a rev war sharp shooter. "widow maker".
Frontier farmer who joined milita when war started.
Any advise appreciated.

I was in the same exact situation a few weeks ago. I fortunately got a chance to visit Kingsburyarms and he let me hold his Jim Kibler Colonial in 50 caliber. It felt very comfortable. When I tried to make it point somewhere else, the weight of the barrel away from center mass carried momentum and that took some deliberateness to stop. He also had Jim Kibler's Mountain rifle, which I think was in 45 caliber. This was a breeze to point and shoot, probably because the barrel had less weight (I'm guessing the caliber was on the larger end for the smaller contour barrel). I enjoyed the quick to point aspect but didn't like the feel of the stock style. So what I discerned from the visit was that I would probably like the Colonial kit in 54 or 58. Mr. Kibler returned an email of mine also saying that he preferred the 54 over 50 due to weight. So I placed an order for his Colonial in 54 last week :)

Also, this may be a non-issue for you, but 54 is probably more economical to shoot. 58 caliber RBs are disproportionately more expensive than RBs. 54s are like $14 per 100 while 58s are like $20 per 100.

Offline Darkhorse

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Re: Kibler colonial .50 or .54 need help deciding
« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2018, 08:55:38 AM »
I'm a lifetime black powder hunter, having started in 1976, my favorite caliber  is the .54. I've had more of these than anything else. My current .54 I built 20 years ago, it's in a Lancaster-Isaac Haines stock pattern, a Colraine barrel, and a single trigger. This rifle shoots tighter groups  than my Rice .40 caliber does. I spent a lot of time getting that stock to fit me, and now it fits me well. The lock has been tuned and retuned until it's slick as can be and very fast. The single trigger is too light to mention.
I could see this rifle carried in rifle companys up and down the frontier. I don't see it out of place at Kings Mountain either. And yes this is just the type rifle I would use if I were a sniper in that war.
Ponder on this also. I have a B profile Rice .40 caliber barrel in the same type stock. It is sweet with more weight at the muzzle. If one built a rifle around a B profile .50 caliber barrel that rifle should weigh 1/2 pound or so less than the .54 and still retain all the touches applied to the .54, with a 50 you will carry more balls in your bag, and a lighter, slimmer rifle. I think this rifle is a good candidate for a Rev. War rifleman and sniper.

I know a Kibler kit is probably the best kits out there now...by a small margin. Perfectly shaped and inletted, it would be hard to mess one up. But it would not be unique. More people are getting them and posting all over the net. But if you don't mind being on a shoot where 3 out of 5 guys shoot the exact same rifle as you do then go for it.
Another thing is he is only offering a couple of rifle styles. So what's offered may not really be what you want. I would look at some of TOW's kits, The Chambers kits, Peconticas kits. Take a close look at Wayne Dunlap's kits and there several more out there. Point is, It may not be a Kibler but it might be the best rifle for you. Precarved and inletted stocks get a lot of flack and failure storys. But I can tell you as a fact with a few basic skills one of the kits I mentioned can be built into your perfect rifle. It will take longer but in the end it will be your perfect rifle.
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Offline Flint62Smoothie

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Re: Kibler colonial .50 or .54 need help deciding
« Reply #14 on: October 28, 2018, 12:47:52 AM »
Having a LH custom 50-cal LH AAA+ tiger striped stock longrifle being built as we speak, knowing what I know ‘now’, I too would take a 54 over a 50 every day of the week if/when built from same ‘kit’ and only the barrel weight differed.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2018, 12:49:30 AM by Flint62Smoothie »
All of my muzzleloaders will shoot into one ragged hole ALL DAY LONG ... it's just the 2nd or 3rd & other shots that tend to open up my groups ... !

Offline vanu

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Re: Kibler colonial .50 or .54 need help deciding
« Reply #15 on: October 28, 2018, 01:20:22 AM »
A fun problem to have!

Im with Rich...flip a coin; either way you wont be disappointed...

Bruce

Offline Huntschool

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Re: Kibler colonial .50 or .54 need help deciding
« Reply #16 on: October 28, 2018, 02:55:31 AM »
This is kind of a Ford vs. Chevy question and I doubt the answer can be found.

As to me, I like .54's and .40's as these seem to shoot the best for me as to both targets and hunting.  I like my .54's twisted 1:66 so I can shoot heavy powder loads with patched RB's.  Interestingly, I had Getz make me a .40 back 30 years ago and had it twisted 1:66 also.  it shoots lights out and can go up to 90 gr of 3FFFg powder staying very accurate.

That all being said, I am currently having a .62 old Getz barrel inlet for a smooth rifle and then a .32 octagon full taper barrel inlet for a very skinny SMR/TN gun.

Your choice.... either one will shoot......
Bruce A. Hering
Program Coordinator/Lead Instructor (retired)
Shotgun Team Coach
Southeastern Illinois College
AMM 761
CLA

sespe

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Re: Kibler colonial .50 or .54 need help deciding
« Reply #17 on: October 28, 2018, 09:07:47 PM »
I was in that boat, too.  I've reenacted for years and carried a .50 rifle.  That's what I wanted from Jim.  But .54's were in stock.  I am very happy I went with the 54.  Just had to change all my accessories.


Offline terryk

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Re: Kibler colonial .50 or .54 need help deciding
« Reply #18 on: October 29, 2018, 02:36:28 AM »
I looked on the Kibler web page and I searched posts, but I could not find a weight. 
I was seriously looking at an Chamber's Isaac Haines, and that gets listed at 7 3/4 in 50 caliber. 
I am not getting any younger, but I still hunt hard here in the mountains of PA, and lighter rifle is more pleasant to lug up a snowy hillside. 

Willbarq

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Re: Kibler colonial .50 or .54 need help deciding
« Reply #19 on: October 31, 2018, 07:11:38 AM »
Planning my first build. Trying to decide on caliber. .50 or .54
Most shooting will be target.
May get into some reenactments. May be used for some hunting but not primary.
Trying to build a rifle that would have been carried by a rev war sharp shooter. "widow maker".
Frontier farmer who joined milita when war started.
Any advise appreciated.

.50 easier obtainable "ammo".... so to speak.