"Liver Eatin' Johnston's" Hawken

[redheart]

Cheers to you Dave F.

[Bob Roller]

The late T.K Dawson who made what were possibly the best detailed Hawken copies
ever said,"The best anyone will do today is to make a representative type of this rifle"
and he included his own stunning work in that group.The Hoffman&Campbell rifle repro
he made and shown by his grandson,Mark Brier is an example of Tom's eye for the tiniest
details in reproducing this rifle.I made the lock and triggers and copied a very low quality
lock to do it.The triggers weren't much better but they fit the theme that was being  used.
The lock was an Ashmore.
Taylor's comment about the Davis lock not being as good as one of mine is a fine compliment
but when you look at the locks on original Hawken and other American guns from that time,the
Davis easily surpasses them just as Taylor's superb copy of the pistol grip Hawken surpassed the
old one(s).Have fun with these builds and don't worry about perfection,it ain't gonna be there.

Bob Roller

[Herb]

Taylor, you really got a good fit of the breech to the tang.  That gives me fits!  And it is very important for good accuracy.  It is so important that if a builder (who shoots for accuracy) cannot get a good fit, I recommend glueing the two pieces together to make them solid.  That eliminates the reseating of the parts due to recoil, detrimental to accuracy.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Thanks Herb, and you are absolutely correct about the need for an as perfect as possible fit with the plug and the standing breech.  I take some time there, and have made scrapers to remove steel where the contact does not allow perfection.  When done, I solder the two together for filing the snail, and straightening the tang.  They remain a unit until the tang is fully inlet.

[Herb]

I went to Cody and measured the Liver Eating Johnson Hawken.  The barrel is 31.75" long ahead of the snail.  It is 1.3" across the flats ahead of the snail and 1.218" at the muzzle.  The bore has 7 lands and grooves and the twist is 1 inch in 48 inches.  The bore I measured with bore gauges I make as .537 (call it .54 caliber) and the muzzle is filed, at least .58 across.  The museum uses as tapered brass bore gauge, so they don't read the bore diameter.  You can get a custom barrel built to these specs by Oregon Gun Works or Bobby Hoyt, but you couldn't get a breech plug and tang to match.  Better to get it 1.250 at the breech and then use Track's Hawken Plug-PH-20-3, 1 1/4" slant with 3/4x16 threaded journal 1/2" long.  If you want a lighter rifle, go with a 1 1/8" straight barrel.  Underrib is 18.125" long, riveted on with 4 rivets

 Mountain Meek gave you the correct part numbers for lock, butt plate, triggers and trigger guard.  Toeplate is a beavertail.  No commercially available correct entry pipe, I'd file one out of the TE-7-I, 2.6" long, opened to .480 inside diameter.  Rod pipes are .500 inside diameter, 1.26" long.  Ramrod had a concealed ball puller on the inside end, .400 at wood, but .500 at the muzzle end.  Lock was 4.9" long, hammer was notched.  Lock panels are 1.710 across the front and 1.5 at the rear.

Stock is 2.1" deep ahead of the trigger guard and at the keys.  No fish belly to toeline or forend.  Rear sight is  thick, closest I could come is Track's RS-PA-11, cut to a 3/8" base.  Best stock is Pecatonica's halfstock Hawken for a 1 1/8" barrel (you'd have to inlet the 1 1/4" barrel in, no problem), drilled for 7/16" ramrod (1/2" to entry pipe, then can reduce to 7/16" diameter with a rod tip inside).  No inletting other than barrel and rod hole.  Drop at heel is 3", which this stock has. No cast off, and pitch (butt plate flat on floor and tang touching a vertical wall) is 5 inches to top of barrel.   Nose cap is .75 long, cast steel, Muzzleloader Builder's Supply lists the correct one, but is out of stock.  Otherwise go with their 1" size (.8" long) and file open to fit the barrel.   I get a Davis Jim Bridger lock not cut for snail and cut my own so the hammer hits the nipple correctly.

I also did the pistol grip Hawken, the W. S. (Denver) Hawken, and 1997.4.8 (with a patch box).  I was too beat after a bad night's sleep at the IRMA (Buffalo Bill's) hotel with hammering steam radiators to do any more.  I have a few pictures and will be getting high quality photos from the museum in a few days.

[smylee grouch]

Thanks for the research Herb. Good stuff to know if one wants to make a as close as possible replica.

[Herb]

The trigger reach from center of butt plate to the front trigger is 13.375 inches.

[redheart]

Herb,
Thanks a million for doing this. I love having all of this information and can't wait to hear about what else you found out on this trip.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Herb, your details for the Johnson rifle show a maker's eye.  I honestly cannot tell if the breech is slanted or not, but suspect you are right...straight 90 deg.
break off.  And idea of the weight of Johnson's rifle?  Looks to me like the ideal offhand rifle!!

[Herb]

I called the breech Slant, and Bob wrote that on my sheet.  But my photo seems to show a straight breech.  My photo PMB software is not working correctly with my new Sony DSC-W830.  Photo OK in camera but does not upload to my computer correctly.  Bob has better photos, and Danny (the curator) is sending us their high-quality photos of their Hawkens.  Maybe I can get a better photo of the breech and tang.



The image is split, disregard that and look to see if the breech plug is straight or slant.  If you enlarge this photo (hold down control and hit the + sign) it looks as if the joint is straight down to the side flat but slant under that.  We weren't allowed to dismount the barrels or locks, so couldn't examine it.  We did pull the ramrods, except the one in the W.S. Hawken (Denver C.T) was stuck tight.





The concealed ball puller.  The rifle with a patch box, 1997.4.8, has a reversible patch puller on its rod.

[Herb]

Here is the muzzle.  The rib is soldered at the front, the first rivet is 3.75 inches from the front, ahead of the first rod pipe, the face of which is 4.25 inches from the muzzle.


The ram rod is .50 inches at the front with a brass collar.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Some observations from these images.  If the breech is slanted, it is very slight.  Note the nipple angle - much closer to straight up than modern snails.  The hammer cup is cut to strike the nipple flat, and has a deep cup to come well down on the nipple.  The hammer cup is split .
Note how long the trigger guard bow is compared to modern offerings.
The under-rib has flat sides, not concaved.
The tang starts its arc immediately at the break off...there is no flat section to the first screw.
The front trigger is slightly longer than the back trigger, and the back trigger has only a slight arc - much less than modern offerings.
The lock retaining screw is slightly inlet into the escutcheon, and its head is slightly domed - and in wonderful condition.  The hammer screw is almost flat, rather than domed, and also in great shape.
The internal lock screws are small - perhaps #5's or even #4's.  The screw spring screw is well forward of the screw screw.  The lock plate is bevelled right to the barrel, forward of the snail - integral with the moulding.
The guard spur and the rail contact the trigger plate.
The barrel slides enter from the right.
The hammer has no chequering on the thumb spur.
The entry pipe has very fine raised beads.  This pipe would be easy to  make from sheet steel.

There's likely lots I've missed.  Thanks for this great insight into an iconic Hawken, Herb.

[rich pierce]

Basic question: is this marked S Hawken?

[Herb]

Yes, it is S. Hawken.  These photos are from Gordon's book, with his permission.

It is amazing the details that can be learned from good photos.  Thanks very much Taylor, and anyone else who pitches in.  I laid some of these rifles on Track's catalog full-sized photos of parts to compare.  The LEJ trigger guard is the same as Jim Bridger's and Kit Carson's, Track's TG-Hawk-L-I.  What is different is that the triggers on the LEJ rifle are closer together.  The rear one is less curved, .830 long, and farther back in the bow.  I don't know if they are set in the pictures, I did not set any of them.  The front one is .960 long.  Notice that it is closer to the sear adjustment screw between the two triggers than on current double set triggers, Ron Long's or L&R.  The key ends are grooved so I think they are likely pinned.  I did not pull any to check.  Key heads were on the left in the capbox rifle with ends grooved and in the pistol grip rifle with  ends not grooved, and on the right in the W.S. Hawken Denver rifle, ends not grooved.