Advice on carding while browning "Success"

[smart dog]

Hi,
Thanks John.  I am going to put the barrel aside for a while to do other work and also investigate other browning formulae.   I appreciate your help. Some of the redness in those barrel could also be dragon's blood added to a lacquer finish?

dave

[Craig Wilcox]

Dave, it appears that the period gunsmiths were both chemists and magicians when it comes to coloring steel.  And as half-magicians, they have adhered to the saying, "Magicians never reveal their secrets."

I am following this discussion closely as a fan of slow rust bluing/browning.  I'd like to achieve the same goal on an upcoming barrel - that dark reddish/blue/purple color deep in the metal.  I have had enough of hot chemical bluing.  I do like Brownell's classic slow rust bluing, and also used their hot bluing system in the past.

I enjoyed John Cholin's "treatise" on the chemistry of the subject - very professional.

[Curtis]

Dave - I have a couple of thoughts that may get you closer to the color you are looking for, if you decide it is worth the time experimenting extensively.   The processes are a little unconventional and out of the normal "box" but the results may give you something similar to what you are after, a redder "brown".

I have used straight chlorine bleach on hot barrel steel to bring out good, reddish contrast on a pair of twist shotgun barrels.  Slather it on like you would a hot brown, metal just hot enough to steam or sizzle the bleach.  Card often with your wire wheel, repeat process.  It is a very slow process but created a very smooth brown that was reddish in cast on these barrels.  This method will not work well around gold or silver inlay on barrels because the hot bleach will get under the inlay and cause corrosion - I did an experiment on a normal steel barrel scrap stub with inlay and could see it bubbling from the edge of the inlay so I didn't use it for that particular gun. If I remember correctly it gave a reddish tone on the normal barrel steel as well.



Another thing I experimented with was Birchwood Casey Plum Brown, diluted 75-80% with water and applied hot with denim cloth.  Card with a wire wheel several times as you go.  I stopped before I got an even finish in the pics below, I was experimenting with a "faux damascus" barrel finish and it was good enough for my purposes as it was.  You can see it has a reddish tone and could possibly produce an acceptable color for you.  Could be worth a try if you have some plum brown in the shop that you thought you would never use again!   





If you have a pistol barrel or barrel cutoff in the shop to experiment with it will give you a good idea how things will turn out and is quick to sand or drawfile back to bare metal for another round of testing if needed.  Of course different barrels steels can give different results....

Curtis

[smart dog]

Hi Curtis,
Thanks a bunch for that information. I will give it a try.  My gold inlay is only on the separate chambered breech which will be browned and then boiled to dark blue in contrast to the barrel.  So I could try the bleach without fear of the inlay.  I am going to Lewisburg and will shop around for some browning solutions but I also am going to try a simple ferric chloride, water, and alcohol solution and then scald (not boil) before carding.  I don't have the soft stainless steel wheel from Brownells because it has been back ordered for some time so I am using a soft brass wheel with very fine bristles, more like a brass mop, that seems to work well. On bare steel, it just polishes the surface and makes no scratches. By the way Curtis, I finally got the powdered alkanet root I ordered over a month ago. Although I already stained and applied some finish to my English walnut stock, I rubbed it back vigorously with a maroon Scotch Bright pad dipped in raw linseed oil. Then I poured about 2 teaspoons of root powder into 2 ounces of mineral spirits and let it sit for 4 days.  After experimenting on scrap wood, I painted the stock with the alkanet mixture and let it sit for 10 minutes before wiping off all excess stain.  The result was spectacular, even on the already stained and mostly sealed stock.  The mineral spirit base seemed to allow the stain to still penetrate the wood to some extent and not just get wiped off.  A few more coats of polymerized tung oil will finish the stock and then on to checkering once the finish is cured.  I just got my 60 degree checkering cutters so the diamonds will have tapered sides but no points on top. I am looking forward to that task.  I like checkering but, like engraving, it causes a certain "puckering" factor every time I do it.

dave       

[Daryl]

Is this the sort of colour you are looking for?
Might not (work) be possible with the stub twist bls.

[smart dog]

Hi Daryl,
Thanks for the photo but no.  If you look at the pistols I showed previously you can see the color I want.

dave

[jerrywh]

  If you want brown you are not supposed to boil or scald at all.  Just card with a very fine brush.

[smart dog]

Hi Jerry,
Thanks for the note.  I was looking at some recipes in Angier as well as an old publication from 1885 with the title "English Mechanic and World of Science".  As was common to older scientific and technical journals, each article is written as a letter to the readership.  In both sources I read recipes that specifically mention that if the rust formed on the barrel is scalded in hot water (well below 212 degrees), the red oxide color is preserved and if it is boiled it turns blue-black.  I do know from my experience boiling traps, which I usually would let rust a little before boiling in logwood dye, if they were pulled too early before heated to the ambient boiling temperature, they were rusty brown not blackened.  I will experiment Jerry and let you know how it goes. Also Jerry, have you ever noted barrels painted with a tinted lacquer?  I've had the privilege of handling some very fine late 18th and early 19th century English dueling pistols with stub twist barrels. Several of them were that reddish brown but it almost seemed cloudy, like a shiny pigmented coating.  At the time, I did not really focus on the browning as much as I did the twist pattern and other features of the pistols.

dave     

[jerrywh]

 If I remember correctly the logwood has something to do with it.  I think I still have a bunch of log wood in the loft. 

[Curtis]

Dave, thanks for the information concerning the alkanet root - it sounds very promising and I eagerly await seeing the results!  Ron Scott has reported excellent results finishing English walnut with alkanet infused oils.

Good luck with the browning experiments, I am also currently doing some testing with a ferric chloride, water and alcohol solution.  I have successfully browned with it before but am trying different strengths of mixture both hot applications and traditional cold applications in a damp box.  If i get any results that lean towards the red spectrum I will post them here.

BTW, I forgot to mention when using the diluted plum brown solution applied with a denim cloth that produced the reddish tone, I didn't just swab the solution on, but applied it with some semi- vigorous rubbing, and carded when cool enough to handle.  I looked up the spec sheet and though not mentioned on the bottle it contains COPPER CHLORIDE, DIHYDRATE, which can leave copper deposits if rubbed when the steel is not hot enough.  The copper likely contributes to the reddish color I got in my testing with the diluted solution.

Curtis

[Blacksmoke]

Hi Dave,  Responding to your request re: final finish on a rust blued or browned barrel I use a number of coats( usually 5-6 coats) of floor wax or the English "Renaissance Wax" produced by appointment to Her Majesty the Queen. I have found that the more "matt" the finish the better the result with waxing.  Hugh Toenjes

[smart dog]

Hi,
Thanks everyone for your help and advice.  I listened and applied what I learned from you guys. The barrel came out very well. I basically followed your advice (along with Ian Pratt's) but added the step of pouring scalding water over the barrel before carding.  This step was mentioned frequently in both Angier and in an old British technical journal when red browns were described.  It works.  I eventually settled on Wahkon Bay rust brown as superior to LMF, TOW Tru-Brown, and my own ferric chloride solution for color. I used a soft stainless steel wheel made by Grobet for carding. I attached photos but my indoor lighting is not very good. However, you get the idea and I'll have much better photos with the completed gun.
dave

[rich pierce]

Nice warm color with out a purple tint.  Remember what you did!

[James Rogers]

Exquisite finish!

[smart dog]

Hi and thanks Rich and James,
I really worked my butt off on this one. It took a lot of cycles with pretty heavy carding in between.  Ironically, the dry cold weather made the process slow but I think ended in a better result.  My damp box helped but ambient conditions still made a difference.  My process was to polish the barrel to 800 grit and degrease using hot water and Comet and then acetone until no water beaded on the metal. Then I dried the barrel and applied Wahkon Bay brown using a clean linen patch. I soaked the patch and squeezed it out, then started from one end, wiped it on a barrel flat in one smooth motion end to end without lifting it or using any scrubbing motion. Just a single long swipe. After all the flats were wiped, I set the barrel in my damp box for about 6 hours until a good coat of rust formed. I then poured scalding water (probably about 160-180 degrees F) over the barrel and let it dry. For the first and second cycle, I carded the barrel with a coarse canvas cloth rolled up very tightly.  I brushed the barrel vigorously with the ends of the roll. I applied the browning again and let the barrel sit in the damp box until another good coat of rust formed and repeated the previous scalding and carding.  Then for the rest of the cycles, I applied browning, let the barrel sit in the damp box for no more than 2 hours, scalded, and carded vigorously with my stainless steel wheel rotating on my lathe at about 800 rpm.  It took at least 10 more cycles to get what I wanted.  Each carding with the wheel seemed to bring out a deeper, warmer red. When I reached a nice even brown, I wiped the barrel with ammonia to neutralize the acid and let the barrel sit for 2 days to see if any after rust developed. A little did, so I carded it again with the wheel and wiped it with ammonia. Then I heated it with a heat gun until hot to the touch and applied a coat of polymerized tung oil tinted with alkanet root. I rubbed the oil in the hot barrel vigorously with a cloth and it let dry for 3 days. Finally, I gave it a coat of Renaissance wax and polished it.  I charcoal blued the front and rear sights. When I installed the rear sight, I coated the barrel and bottom of the finial on the sight with oil so it would not scratch the brown as I tapped it into place.

dave