Which Gun to Build?

[Cotton1of2]

Hi everyone,

I’m fairly new to the longrifle scene and I’m having a hard time wrapping my head around everything. I wanted to ask some of you more experienced folks a question regarding which gun for my character.

I want to portray a trapper from the early 19th century, after L&C, Colter and Lisa time frame. I’m interested in the beginning of the western exploration before it became crowded by the late 30’s.

I want to build a civilian type flintlock in 50 cal with a shorter barrel, 34-38”. I really like the idea of iron mounts too. I would think this gun should be mfg after 1780s or maybe later. I’m not sure how long a rifle would last on the frontier, so maybe something mfg in the 1800 to 1805 timeframe?

I would really like this rifle to be likely used in this time period or if anyone has a representative artifact to point to, that would be helpful.

Disclaimer: I know there are tons of books on this subject, I just want your opinions and references. I’ll buy a book if I can narrow the hunt down to a school or something.

Please let me know if I can clarify anything.

Thanks everyone, I appreciate the insight.

[rich pierce]

You’re probably not going to find a short rifle around 1800-1810. You’re better off finding a rifle from the period you like than stipulating you want these specific features then trying to find a gun that matches. Most trappers carried 9-12 pound guns - on their horses.

The book, For Trade and Treaty has good illustrations of guns traded to Native Americans. Those guns were also representative of what trappers used.

[Cotton1of2]

Thank you, Rich. I appreciate the input. I’ll check out that book.

[ron w]

if you're dead set on a short rifle and architecture isn't all that important to you, you're better off just building a fantasy rifle with general "original gun influences" in it's design. it will look better and you will get a lot less flak.

[Cotton1of2]

I appreciate the input everyone. I think I’ll do what I know is right and do more research on guns. I wouldn’t mind building a fantasy rifle if I was more educated on the subject to keep from making embarrassing errors. I’d like to stay true to the form in order to not perpetuate any misconceptions about history.

[Copper Dave]

What about the rifles that were built for Lewis and Clark’s Corp of Discovery? From the journal “The Corps of Discovery had at least fifteen of the new Model 1803 rifles, the first ones issued; this weapon, the first rifle specifically designed for the U.S. Army, was about .54 caliber with a thirty-three-inch barrel, but the expedition version may have been a predecessor or prototype differing in some respects from the standard issue. The captains sometimes referred to them as short rifles, because they were considerably shorter than the civilian Kentucky long rifles of the period”

[Cotton1of2]

I had the 1803 in my sights for a while and may still be an option. I just find civilian longrifles so much more pretty than military guns. But you’re right Copper Dave, thatnis a solid choice. I also figure that Colter may have set out to trap with an 1803 but I don’t know for sure.

[alacran]

Issac Haines made at least one  gun, that had a 38 inch barrel 38". George Frederic Fainot made at least one that was 39 inch long. Some Moravian guns fit the 37 to 39 inch range. Some of theses guns were made in the late 18th century. As far as iron mounted guns there are some southern guns that were iron mounted but not many.

[Kevin Houlihan]

If you’re looking for documentation to match what you want to build, it’ be difficult. Been there, done that.  1820’s and 1830’s fur companies were primarily buying guns from the Lancaster PA area.  These guns were for the most part 40 - 46” in length, stocked in maple w/ brass furniture and weighed between 9-11 lbs. and had single triggers.  These were the specifics requested by the fur companies when they put in orders for rifles. 
Good luck
Kevin

[stuart cee dub]

 Another solution albeit bordering on a fantasy gun is to build a cut down Penn. style factory trade rifle gun by purposely make the spacing on the rampipes appear as if it had been cut down and the front rampipe moved back .

If I were to make such a gun I would further the impression by giving it a distressed finish as no one from the period would have cut down a perfectly good new rifle.

There was some discussion on this board regarding the rifle used in the Revenant movie . The custom builder wouldn't cut down his long rifle masterwork so the director had it done as the director was convinced that would add to the authenticity .
He was convinced trapper all had their rifles cut down for use out west .Whatever....
A JJ Henry trade rifle would be what I would build and I would modify a late ketland flinter for the lock.   

Getting parts for a proper 1803 is a bit more difficult of late I am told .
A friend of mine just completed a build which made a really fine , nicely balanced rifle but he complained getting the right parts was a hassle.   
 

[rich pierce]

The Bogle rifle http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=11592.0. is good for an iron mounted rifle that could have gone west in the hands of a Southerner. There are some early Gillespie rifles to consider also.

[Cotton1of2]

Awesome info guys. Thank you to Alacran, Kevin, Stuart and Rich. I did read about Ron Luckenbill's Revenant gun and how they asked for them to be cut and he said, "NO!" I'm definitely not looking to emulate Hollywood producers, for sure.