What's your best Getz .5o load?

[recurve]

Got lucky found a Getz barreled gun (Nate McKenzie) .50 44inch



 any good load suggestions welcomed (Oh Boy Xmas came early)

[recurve]

[Daryl]

I have a Getz 48", .50 with deep rounded grooves.  The grooves are not as wide as the lands.  I am using a .495" dead-soft lead ball, cast from as pure lead as I could find,

wall sheeting from an X-Ray room. I use 10oz denim patch, that I measure at .0225" thick. This patch actually does not go hard into the bottom of the grooves, but the rifle's

 loading remains the same for a whole day's shooting - no wiping is needed as there is very little buildup, and only in the bottom of the rounded grooves.  I can tell there is some

 buildup, as the cleaning water gets dirtier than with any other rifle I have. As well, it takes more strokes with the breech in the water than any other gun I have, to get clean. As

 this barrel is easily removed from the gun, 4-barrel keys and the breech is hooked, the barrel is removed and dunked in water for cleaning after every use. Even my long rifle held

together with pins gets the barrel removed for cleaning.

The gun is seeming to shoot fairly well with 85gr. 2f GOEX.  Seems to me I recall that I tested the rate of twist and it is 1 turn in 56". I need to do more range testing with different

loads and ball and different patch combinations.  I have some light canvas that shows less comprehensibility than the denim I've been using. It quite possibly might give better accuracy.

Too- I might not be using enough powder for this barrel, or perhaps too much, however, that is highly unlikely as the velocity is quite low with the 85gr. charge - barely 1,475fps.  Most round

small calibre (under .58) ball guns I have had, shoot best in the 1,700fps to 1,850fps range. However, the ball and patch combination have to be up to that task of speed and pressure. THAT is

very important.

[OldMtnMan]

.595 ball and .022 patch in a .50 bore and doesn't load hard?

I'll never understand this?

[Daryl]

No - not hard to load. I also used the same patch with a .400" ball in my .40 Goodoien bl. and a .320" ball in my .32 that had wide lands, narrow grooves - it also loaded easily.

Perhaps the condition of the inside of the bore is the difference. I don't know.  Just about all of the guys we shoot with, use a ball that is .005" under bore size, with a .022" denim patch.

The source for the even heavier mattress ticking we all preferred, dried up, so that is why I am testing with this canvas.  My new dial calipers measure it at .022" heavily compressed, as hard

as I can squeeze the tines together with forefinger and thumb.  The 10oz. denim measures .0005 thicker, but loads easier than the canvas. the canvas is a coarser weave- thicker thread, I

guess.  We will do another video on it this spring - with several guns.  Now, for example, in my .69, I use a .682" ball, so it's starting out .008" smaller than the bore, but I am currently loading

that rifle with a 14oz. denim patch, which I measure at .034" compressed.  I ran out of 12oz, which I measured at .030".  With either of those two patches, I need a heavy starter and have to

smack it.  It's starter is the one on the left, with the piece of ash baseball bat. I set the little knob on the patched ball and smack the 'top' side of the starter's handle with my palm.  In, it goes and is now

formed to the bottom of the grooves. Down it goes, with the hickory rod.

[smallpatch]

It's a .495 ball, not .595

[OldMtnMan]

Yes, I went out and just read his post. A .495 ball I can accept.

[Mike Brooks]

Depends on twist, Getz made 50's in several twist rates.

[recurve]

[WadePatton]

Well I'm just waiting to hear exactly how less comprehensive patching is going to help anything.    Howssat work anyway?

I have a Getz 48", .50... I have some light canvas that shows less comprehensibility than the denim I've been using. It quite possibly might give better accuracy...

Sorry, no Getz here. (yet)

[Bigmon]

I shoot 65 GR FFFG Goes with .495 ball & .018 ticking.
Cuts the same hole as far as I can see to do it and shoots thru deer at 80 - 100 yds.  I generally won't shoot at one farther than that.  I cannot determine much drop at that range.  That's about all one can ask from a gun.

[Daryl]

Yes, I went out and just read his post. A .495 ball I can accept.

sry- typo

We did test with a .508" ball in Taylor's rounded grooved .50 Rice. I was not difficult with his .022" patch, but it did seal, while a .495" ball and the same patch did not.

This just reminded me. A fellow showed up at the Thompson Mountain Gun Club range in Coquitlam BC, back in 76, I think it was. Saturday, at the gun store, I had told him
I'd be at that range on Sunday. He was having trouble and needed help. He showed up with his 're-crowned' .50 TC Hawkens, his 2F GOEX and .495" balls with .022 denim patches.
He was having trouble loading them, so I loaded one in his gun with 85gr. 2F and showed him how to start it, then seat it down in short -tap-shoves.  That is, to slightly life the rod up
of the ball, then DOWN 6-8" by choking up on the rifle's rod, repeat until the ball is on the powder. he fired that shot then reloaded his rifle the same way - NP.
I then said- watch this, took one of his balls and patches then proceeded to load it into my .45 Bauska barrel, yes- .495" ball and .022" 'brushed' denim patch. That was really nice material.
The only reason I was able to load it, was due to the .028" depth of rifling in that barrel. Les had forgotten it on the rifling machine and the machine did not shut off when it should have, so it just
kept rifling deeper and deeper. The bore on that rifle was .448" as well. I have a picture of it, somewhere. BTW -  that .495" ball was a lot harder pushing down in that .45 than it is in a .50.  The rounded crown simply turned it into a 184gr. slug, slightly radiused on the top from my rod-tip and round on the bottom. The groove to groove comes out at .504"

[OldMtnMan]

I'm just a skinny old man now. I need an easy loading PRB.

[Daryl]

Me too- well old, not so skinny.  6'1" and 240lbs.

[OldMtnMan]

I have some medical problems that are taking the weight off me fast. I must be down to 150lbs by now. I'm afraid to get on a scale. I don't want to know.

Ignorant bliss works for me.

[recurve]

First shots with McKenzie/getz  Goex 4 shots  Same point of aim swiss group 2inches higher 5 shots

[Daryl]

recurve- I suggest you shoot at 50yards minimum. Very little, I mean VERY little of value

 can be learned at 25 yards other than that the gun goes bang.

Here's a 5 shot group at 28yards - with a smoothbore with only a front post. I 'pulled' one.

[recurve]

It was the First time out with this gun (I wanted to make sure it goes bang) and see if the sights are on vs impact  . Next time 50yrds and different powders and loads (like your 85  of 2ff)

Daryl Do you use a steal rod for your tight loads?

[Daryl]

In every gun except for the Verner, I use the rifle's rod - hickory.  In the 48" .50 Verner as the rod tapers to 1/4", I use the stronger, longer stainless rod.

I have shot the course using the rifle's rod, but 48" good quality hickory sticks are hard to find around here.

Steel rods needed? No.  If you scoot me your E-mail in a  PM, I'll mail you 3 short videos about loading 'these' combinations. Taylor, with his Virginia, and

a couple of me with my .58 SxS and .45 longrifle. Taylor is using a hickory range rod, while I am using the 3/8" hickory rifle rods. These should show how

easy it is loading 'these' combinations.

[recurve]

Got  your email >>>--->  that's quite a wack you give the ball

[Daryl]

  - both short starter and rod have cupped ends. They do not put a flat spot on the ball.
Even if just using the short starter's knob to punch the ball into the bore, there is a tiny flat spot produced. If you
whacked it 4 lightly times, you would put a larger flat spot. I usually use the little peg on the short starter's handle to
put the patched ball into the bore. That is shown in the video of me loading my .45 Longrifle. After putting the patched
ball down onto the powder, I put the hole in the starter's handle over the rod and give it a tap.
This is to give the load a 'slight' compression.  I have proven to myself that this little 'tap' works to reduced shot to shot
velocity variations. Closer shot to shot velocity has the potential to improve accuracy.  Perhaps that is why I have shot 1/2" 5 shot groups
at 50 yards using my .40, .45 and .69 calibre rifles and 1" to 1 1/2" at 100meters with the .69?
(when I don't have a brain @$#% or otherwise screw up, that is)
Using the little "cupped" stud on the starter to put the ball into the bore has proved easier to get a straight seat into the bore. This is very important
and is the reason guide bullet or ball starters were invented before the mid 1800's.  All Remington Barrels made and sold on the 'market' had their muzzles
turned for guide bullet starters. Guide starters are necessary to properly introduce picket bullets into the bore. Because of that fact, I tested just whacking it
in with the starter's knob, then pulled the ball out with the patch. The balls, every time, had lead pushed up into a ridge on the off side due to being hit on an angle.
I then punched one in with a little cupped stud, as shown in that video, then pulled the ball. I was not surprised the ball was evenly marked all the way around form the
lands AND the grooves, just as shown in Lyman's Black Powder Handbook, the diagram of a properly marked ball - heavy fabric marks from the lands, lighter fabric marks from
the bottom of the grooves.
Here it is.
Clicking on the picture below, will enlarge it making it easier to read the type.



BTW- I've sent these videos out to a couple of the lads, here. If anyone else wants them, just pm me your e-mail.
I promise not save your e-mail address.
 

[recurve]

Here's something that backs up your compression loading >>>-->

https://www.blackpowdermag.com/load-compression-and-accuracy/

[recurve]

70 grns swiss 2f  490 ball .020 denim mutton tallow 50 yds

[Daryl]

That looks like a good group, recurve. Well done. I would smooth out the machine-cut corners with emery or wet/dry paper as in the picture below
and rotate the gun 90degrees every 10 seconds or so. The job, by the looks of your muzzle should be done in under a minute.
That looks like my muzzle as well. The grooves are not as wide as the lands.  .0225" (10oz. Bull Denim for Joannes-same stuff)
Mine is black, don't think that matters, but the weave looks finer than other denims I've used.
Your barrel muzzle to need need smoothing as I see it in the picture provided.
Like this helps and eases loading of tighter combinations. We think these load easily.