Author Topic: Patchbox sticking  (Read 1378 times)

KILTED COWBOY

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Patchbox sticking
« on: April 26, 2019, 04:10:56 PM »
So after completing the finish on my rifle using Chambers oil.
Went to slide on the wooden patch box and it slid 80% om then got stuck.
Had a heck of a time sliding it out.
I finished the stock all the way to the hole for the box.
Should I have left the mating surface unfinished?
Thought it would not look right that way.
Now should I sand down on the stock taking the finish down or on the box lid.

ron w

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Re: Patchbox sticking
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2019, 04:21:21 PM »
first...., you might wait a few more days or a week to make sure the finish is truly and completely cured. then I would think a light scraping of the tight spots would be all that is necessary. of course,.... where you scrape, make sure you scrape enough to allow yourself to put on new finish without creating another tight spot.  it may be that all you need to do is scrape the finish off the mating areas. the built up finish will stick to itself until it is absolutely completely cured and scraping it off the mating surfaces will still leave finish in the wood in those areas, where it needs to be.

Offline Dave B

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Re: Patchbox sticking
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2019, 04:39:44 PM »
I like the idea of scraping  down the high spots. if you were sparing with the Prussian blue on a tooth brush on the contact points of the lid. sliding the lid back into position should mark the points that are too high. This is where a sanding block and some 600 grit wet/dry sand paper  can be helpful. Use a wet sanding technique using stain and finish. Wipe it down and and let dry between coats. It may only take one session to knock back the high spots. I would do both the lid and stock.
Dave Blaisdell

Offline rich pierce

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Re: Patchbox sticking
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2019, 05:14:17 PM »
The amount of angle in the dovetails makes a difference. I like enough angle (not parallel dovetails but wedge shaped, wider at buttplate than at the wrist) to allow it to go almost home before getting tight. But not so loose that it wants to jump out of the rails while sliding it in.
Andover, Vermont

KILTED COWBOY

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Re: Patchbox sticking
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2019, 05:28:35 PM »
It fit perfect before I added the finish. Guess that added just enough to cause interference.
I will also take the advice to let the oil cure completely before I make any adjustments.

Offline rich pierce

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Re: Patchbox sticking
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2019, 05:44:11 PM »
This is a common problem. We all want that perfect fit then things no longer fit at all after sealing or adding finish. If you’ve used a good sealing coat then scraping lightly should make it all better. If not well sealed then it may jam when weather is damp.
Andover, Vermont

ron w

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Re: Patchbox sticking
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2019, 06:41:06 PM »
rich, what you talk about is exactly why the lid should taper a bit from but to wrist..... that way a small bit of rearward movement greatly increases the clearances in the dove tails making the lid come off much easier. the dovetails act more as lid retainer than a sliding arrangement. a lot easier to remove and replace the lid because it quickly detatches from the stock without having to slide very far at all. this method is also much less dependent on an exact fit of the dovetails.  as long as there is a decent fit when the lid is closed, it will stay retained.

Offline smylee grouch

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Re: Patchbox sticking
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2019, 06:51:07 PM »
I had the same problem on one of mine and after another week of curing I used a small portion of scotch brite pad to cut the finnish down in the raceways . I used a smooth edge butter knife to hold the pad material as I slid it back and forth. Worked good.

Offline smallpatch

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Re: Patchbox sticking
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2019, 06:59:08 PM »
After you get it fitting again, some paste wax in the rails will help for the future.
In His grip,

Dane

Offline elkhorne

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Re: Patchbox sticking
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2019, 05:48:13 AM »
Rich,
Since you do not use parallel sides on your lids, can you suggest an angle to apply when you are planning your wooden patchbox? Perhaps 85 or 87 degrees off the base. Thanks.
elkhorne

Offline rich pierce

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Re: Patchbox sticking
« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2019, 05:55:18 AM »
I’m not sure of the angle. I use about 1/8” wider at base compared to nose. Much more than that and it feels wonky starting it in the rails without looking. I like to be able to do most things on a familiar gun by feel.
Andover, Vermont

ron w

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Re: Patchbox sticking
« Reply #11 on: April 27, 2019, 09:45:25 PM »
neither the exact angle of the dove tails , nor the amount of taper of the lid and ways in the stock, are all that important. the dovetails only serve to hold the lid on the stock when in place and the taper just makes the lid separate from the stock easier with less rearward movement. just a decent amount of angle that won't be forced out of the ways when in place and enough taper to make the lid sit in place as you put it on the stock is all that is necessary. it is much more important that you get the angles of the dove tails the same or very close between the lid and the stock. the closer the angle match, the more securely the lid will stay on the stock without trying to slip by the ways.  the deeper the engagement of the lid and ways in the stock and the amount of taper in the design, controls how far you have to back the lid up to have it detach. one other thing to consider is that you make the lid out of fully cured wood, so that, later down the road, there is no chance of shrinkage allowing the dovetails to slide by each other when the lid is all the way on.
    I would assume that various schools had a "typical" angle and taper that they preferred as a standard, but it's importance to the gun is minor, in my opinion, because this detail, being done completely by hand, was most likely done by eye and slightly different on every build.

KILTED COWBOY

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Re: Patchbox sticking
« Reply #12 on: April 27, 2019, 10:23:44 PM »
Wow. I feel like a total Dundee head.
The patch box lid was fitting just fine. I thought that it did not slide toward enough because it wasn’t flush with the butt. What I forgot to realize is that I did not have the butt plate on the stock.
Test fitted with plate on. Perfect.
Duh.... Thanks for all the help though

Offline Pete G.

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Re: Patchbox sticking
« Reply #13 on: April 28, 2019, 06:12:31 PM »
Don't you just love it when a problem solves itself  ::)

Offline Dr. Tim-Boone

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Re: Patchbox sticking
« Reply #14 on: April 30, 2019, 12:37:56 AM »
Now wax those dovetails!!

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