Author Topic: some eye candy  (Read 6652 times)

40Haines

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some eye candy
« on: August 15, 2008, 03:00:22 AM »

Offline Hurricane ( of Virginia)

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Re: some eye candy
« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2008, 05:09:03 AM »
I follow this site regularly and often there are fine items presented for sale. My question is often "value." Do prices seem in line with those expected when we trade amongst our collector colleagues or is the retail "public" market as high as present, ie $10,750for a "fine half" stock or a nice, significantly shortened,signed, incised carved, full stock for $16,500???? Of course the most obvious answer is "the value is in the eye of a buyer with a check book or credit card on the table."
Hurricane
« Last Edit: August 15, 2008, 05:13:09 AM by hurricane »

40Haines

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Re: some eye candy
« Reply #2 on: August 15, 2008, 06:41:09 AM »
It is so rare that I get to see an original here in FL that I have a hard time figuring out what is a fair price on old guns.

The ones in the 8-10K guns are really a mystery to me.

I see pictures of top end contemporary’s and nice originals going in that price range and have a hard time figuring the value of antiquity vs. artisanship.

I know, as you stated there is a difference between the good old boys horse trading vs. an organized auction.

But, figuring out what is fair is a black art.

Then agian I have talked to Erick K about quality forgeries and that adds a whole different dimension to trying to get started in collecting.

The cure (for me) is probably admitting that I will never be educated enough to make an intelligent purchase of an original and just send Jack Gardner a deposit on a fantasy rifle and be done with it.

Offline JTR

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Re: some eye candy
« Reply #3 on: August 15, 2008, 06:29:07 PM »
Some nice guns there, however I think most of the prices are on the high side. The half stock silver mounted rifle is nice, but at $10,750! I parted with a very similar one about 9 years ago, for only $2500!
Maybe I haven't caught up with inflation?
John
John Robbins

Offline Stophel

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Re: some eye candy
« Reply #4 on: August 15, 2008, 08:37:15 PM »
Wow, $10,500 for that Hess rifle?  It's nice, but...

If this is really what these guns were going for, there's no chance I could ever own one... (I don't have much chance as it is!)
When a reenactor says "They didn't write everything down"   what that really means is: "I'm too lazy to look for documentation."

jim m

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Re: some eye candy
« Reply #5 on: August 15, 2008, 10:21:06 PM »
the same thing has happened to the value of other collectables, ie vintage fishing lures,vintage broadheads,ect. E-Bay and the interernet have inflated the prices beyond all reason. but the bottom line as to blame lies with those willing to pay these prices. the bigest autrocity occurs when pieces of history are squirrled away in private collections never to be seen again. what a travisty! I am very thankful for the collectors here who have been willing to post pictures and info for us all to share. A BIG THANK YOU

Offline mr. no gold

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Re: some eye candy
« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2008, 12:33:57 AM »
In my forever humble opinion, the prices are at market value and probably not overly high.
Some are a bit inflated, but good silver mounted half stocks by known makers command very high prices. The Hess is a really good rifle and guns out of this family are seldom seen for any price. I have only had the opportunity to buy one and had to pass because it was beyond my reach for the time. Prices have inflated considerably due to the high dollar auction houses and many well off people wanting 'one good rifle'. Consider the Sherry rifle at RIA which gaveled down at 97K; grand rifle, but some would say overpriced. Or, the Armstrong recently offered by a dealer at 110K. Buy what you can afford is my motto; pretty much what Hurricane said.
It's not likely that they will come down in price. soon.
Dick

PINYONE

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Re: some eye candy
« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2008, 01:38:26 AM »
You Guys better hope that rifles prices don't match fine period furniture prices. If you look at the other American Decorative Arts everything out there has gone through the roof, good for the seller actually good forthe buyer if you can afford the prices- they are not going to make any more originals as of the last time I checked. Here what I suggest- keep your eyes open everywhere because this stuff pops up randomly anywhere any time- jsut found a John Moll beautiful from one end to the other- it was featured in my local Newspaper- I don't get the paper - everybody in town knew about it but me- a friend called me and said did you see that old gun in the paper- I bought a paper- there it was- no one knew what it was- they all thought a Civil war Rifle- bought it for $2,750. I figured that was good enough for me- keep looking !!!!!!!!

Offline JTR

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Re: some eye candy
« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2008, 05:25:29 PM »
I agree with Pinyone that there are still good deals out there to be had by the wide eyed vigilant guy. True you’re not likely to find a perfect attic condition big name gun for pennies, but unless you keep your eyes open you’ll never know.
Take for example the recently posted Thomas Earle fowler found in a gunshop. It seems that no one involved really know what it was, and I doubt that whoever the lucky guy was that bought it, paid anywhere near top $$$ for it.
Other examples of open eyed good deals that I know of;
A $3500 Lehigh rifle for $750.
A $15,000 raised carved Gonter rifle that was bought at a modern gun shop for $1700.
A very nice percussion Henry Kunkle rifle worth about $1500 that was bought in an antique store for $350, including a powder horn.
Although out of the scope of this forum, a $1500 Spencer carbine that was bought at a garage sale for $150.
A very early Bucks Co. Fowler that needed some restoration was bought at auction for $13,400, now for sale at $30,000.
The Dickert rifle that was posted on here earlier this year, in need of restoration, was bought for a very good price considering its potential value.
A pretty good, but plain, PA fowler probably worth $3500, bought for $400.
And no, I didn’t buy all of these but wish I could have!

The thing with these is that you’re just not going to find them at the antique rifle specialty store.  You have to look for them, search them out, look in the news papers, check out garage sales, go to the local gun show that never has anything but new junk,, except, well, once in a while.

And sometimes you just have to be plain lucky by being in the right place at the right time.

 And for the new collector that can’t, or doesn’t want to spend 5/10 thousand dollars for a rifle, you don’t have too. There’s lots of good original guns for sale at $1000/1500, and some for even a good deal less. True they’re generally later guns 1830/1850, generally percussion, but generally with a decent patchbox and not a toilet seat type.
So okay, it’s not going to be a carved beauty or have a bunch of silver inlays, and likely will be beat up some from long years of use, but it’s still a Kentucky long rifle, still a piece of American history, and still a good gun to start a new collection with.
Surprisingly, a good place to look for an inexpensive rifle is at the big major shows like Las Vegas, etc. Sure, there’s going to be the big buck beauties, but there will also be a good number of affordable rifles there as well. The first day for the best choice, the last day for the best price.
You just have to keep your eyes open for opportunity!
Never say never!
John
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Offline smokinbuck

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Re: some eye candy
« Reply #9 on: August 16, 2008, 06:50:36 PM »
Hurricane,
I just got back from the CLA show and there were many items there that fall into the category you are talking about, but a lot of items well worth the big bucks. One that sticks out from yesterday is an "unmarked" Vincent half stock for $20,000. Nice clean condition but without any adornment.
Mark
« Last Edit: August 16, 2008, 06:51:39 PM by smokinbuck »
Mark