Author Topic: Who Made This Rifle - Joseph Long, or Someone Else? (Read 3608 times)

Tanselman · « **on:** July 05, 2019, 01:54:00 AM »

I recently acquired a percussion era longrifle with full patchbox that I think is a Joseph Long rifle. There are remnants of initials on the barrel, but not totally clear. The rifle has its full length barrel and components, has seen a few bumps and bruises along the way, and is rather small and almost dainty. The thumb piece is shaped like a heart. Please review the pictures and give me your opinion/s on this rifle.
Shelby Gallien

cshirsch · « **Reply #1 on:** July 05, 2019, 02:11:19 AM »

The rifle sure looks like a long. There is another smith that made rifles very similar to Long and his initials kind of looked the same. I can't recall the name though.

JTR · « **Reply #2 on:** July 05, 2019, 04:54:05 AM »

Shelby, Here's a couple Joe Long rifles to compare. One has the full signature, the other just initials. Moon cheekpiece inlays to compare as well.
I owned these rifles at one point, and might have more close ups if you need some.

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=11036.0

Tanselman · « **Reply #3 on:** July 05, 2019, 08:05:14 AM »

John, Thanks for the pictures. I went through the Edith Cooper book with all her Joseph Long rifles to use as comparisons...and I came out thinking this is a Long rifle based on a number of details...but the initials don't seem to quite be "J. L." So I am trying to get other opinions as to: 1) is it a Joe Long or not and why, and 2) if not, who is the maker? Shelby Gallien

bcowern · « **Reply #4 on:** July 05, 2019, 10:55:46 PM »

It looks like a Joe Long rifle to me.

There are a few more photos of another Joe Long rifle here:

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=11050.0

Here is a photo of a Joe Long signature similar to your rifle.

Regards,
bcowern

cshirsch · « **Reply #5 on:** July 05, 2019, 11:28:21 PM »

I'm desperately trying to remember the gun maker that I thought sure was a Long but it turned out to be some other gunsmith. I think the last name started with an S. So sorry, I just can't find it again or remember the name.

Tanselman · « **Reply #6 on:** July 06, 2019, 07:53:25 AM »

Was it Samuel Loudenschlager?

Loudy · « **Reply #7 on:** July 06, 2019, 08:12:56 AM »

Shelby,
Check out the signed Joe Long rifle that John "Fundukj" has for sale right now on the forum. The patchbox on your rifle is very similar to the one on John's rifle. Thanks for showing photos of your rifle. I've always liked these Upper Susquehanna guns, but I'm admittedly biased.

Mark

will payne · « **Reply #8 on:** July 08, 2019, 04:38:06 AM »

Here is a gun I found on the internet this one is made by Joseph long

Looks similar.

will payne · « **Reply #9 on:** July 08, 2019, 04:39:52 AM »

Here is another one

JTR · « **Reply #10 on:** July 08, 2019, 06:13:22 PM »

Quote from: Master Will on July 08, 2019, 04:38:06 AM

Here is a gun I found on the internet this one is made by Joseph long

Looks similar.

I'm curious what traits you see on this rifle that says Joe Long is the maker?

will payne · « **Reply #11 on:** July 09, 2019, 03:27:30 AM »

Quote from: JTR on July 08, 2019, 06:13:22 PM

Quote from: Master Will on July 08, 2019, 04:38:06 AM
Here is a gun I found on the internet this one is made by Joseph long

Looks similar.

I'm curious what traits you see on this rifle that says Joe Long is the maker?

look at the decorative metal work around the patch box.

Tim Crosby · « **Reply #12 on:** July 09, 2019, 02:23:48 PM »

Actually it looks like a contemporary take on a Bedford Co. rifle to me.

Tim

Loudy · « **Reply #13 on:** July 09, 2019, 04:17:30 PM »

Shelby,
Back to the gun in question. I believe you can confidently attribute your rifle to gunmaker Joe Long from Snyder/Union County, PA. The patchbox, patchbox lid latch mechananism, football shaped lock bolt plate, cheek inlay, forestock inlay, heart shaped wrist inlay, triggerguard, and buttplate are all consistent with other signed guns from this maker. FYI... the book entitled "The Kentucky Rifle and Me" by Edith Cooper includes photos and drawings of several signed Joe Long rifles. A few questions about your gun. Have you ever had the barrel off your gun? It would be interesting to know if there were any other markings on the hidden bottom flats of the barrel. Also, I'm curious to know if the lower entry pipe is of two-piece construction held together by a small iron rivet? Many gunmakers from Snyder/Union County, PA used this technique to make their entry pipes. Any engraving anywhere on the rifle? Lastly, are the wrist and cheek inlays made of coin silver or German silver? Thanks again for posting photos of your rifle.
Mark

Loudy · « **Reply #14 on:** July 09, 2019, 05:05:34 PM »

Shelby,
Also, if possible, please post a photo of the wrist inlay and breech plug tang. Thanks again.
Mark

JTR · « **Reply #15 on:** July 09, 2019, 07:31:18 PM »

Pardon my questioning of whether the rifle pictured by Master Will was made by Joe Long.
To my eye, opinion, that gun was not made by Joe Long. If I'm wrong, please accept my apology. If I'm not wrong, I just don't think it does this forum any good to attribute a rifle to an incorrect maker, and not point it out.

As for Shelby's gun, the only stickler I see is that the moon inlay doesn't have a nose! I've only seen about half a dozen Longs, and all had a moon with a nose. But with everything else the rifle has, I don't think lack of a nose discounts it as being a Joe Long.
John

PS, I just noticed that Master Will is a young guy, just learning about these guns. So it was great that he looked for a Joe Long rifle, and found one on the internet to post here. That I find commendable, and appreciate him having the interest!
The only caution I would give here is not to believe all that you read on the internet.

I hope your interest in these great rifles continues to grow, and that one day you have a fine collection!
Best Regards, John

Tanselman · « **Reply #16 on:** July 10, 2019, 07:43:56 AM »

Mark,

I will photograph other details [rear pipe, wrist inlay, tang] on the rifle and post tomorrow evening. Everything on the rifle looked like a Joseph Long to me, but the barrel initials were worn and not immediately recognizable. There is no engraving on the rifle, other than the worn barrel initials. I think the wrist and cheek inlays are German silver, but will verify when I get it out to photograph the detail shots.

Shelby

Tanselman · « **Reply #17 on:** July 11, 2019, 12:25:01 AM »

Here are additional pictures of the requested details on the Joseph Long rifle. The cheek and wrist inlays are German silver. Contrary to a prior comment, Long did make cheekpiece inlays similar to this one, with an indent on the crescent moon's inner arc instead of a nose. In the Edith Cooper book, the rifle in figure 18 has such a cheek inlay. Don't recall if I posted barrel data, but it's an uncut 39-7/8 inches long with a .38 caliber bore and 7-groove rifling. Shelby Gallien

cshirsch · « **Reply #18 on:** July 13, 2019, 12:53:17 AM »

Not a Long rifle. Period.

Quote from: Master Will on July 08, 2019, 04:38:06 AM

Here is a gun I found on the internet this one is made by Joseph long

Looks similar.

Buck · « **Reply #19 on:** July 14, 2019, 01:01:18 AM »

A pretty nice contemporary Bedford. Master Will careful - good luck.

Buck

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Author Topic: Who Made This Rifle - Joseph Long, or Someone Else? (Read 3608 times)

bcowern