Measuring patch material, or pre-cut patch thickness

[Darkhorse]

I don't measure patching material much anymore. I find the material I want and measure it once. If it's what I need I'll buy 10 yards or so from the same bolt. After that there's no need to measure for a long time.

[MuskratMike]

10 yards? How much shooting do you do? That's enough material to make several thousand patches. However that is good advise. Just because you found it today doesn't mean you will find it next time.

[Darkhorse]

LOL! I don't shoot enough anymore to use up 10 yards that's for sure. I'm 66 now and go more for quality practice sessions than quantity. But I've been doing this since 1976 and when I was younger I was driven to excell, both on the firing line and the deer woods. There is no way to accurately measure how many yards of ticking I used up in those years. I do remember buying a couple of nearly full bolts of fabric a couple of times. I want my patching to come from the same lot if at all possible that way I know it's all the same.
I bought my powder the same way, a full case at a time each of 2f and 3f. Same thing, same lot, same powder and burn characteristics.

But it only makes sense, at least to me, to buy enough material of the same lot to last a few years. In the long run patch material is cheap.
I keep thinking "what if they stop making ticking of 100% cotton and put a bunch of nylon in the product?" Well if they do it won't stop me from shooting and that's a fact.

[Daryl]

10 yards? How much shooting do you do? That's enough material to make several thousand patches. However that is good advise. Just because you found it today doesn't mean you will find it next time.

10 yards of 12oz. will last a couple years, sometimes more, as I only shoot it in the .69.

One year I only shot that rifle, no others.

Close range shooting, out to 50 yards was all done with 82gr. 2F GOEX
and longer range shooting, out to 200yards was done with 165gr. 2F. That year, I went through 25 pounds of powder but I do not remember how many yards of material I used.
This is a 5-shot 25 yard offhand target I produced, shooting against Taylor in a little contest we had. It is one of the few times I have beaten him shooting on paper - or on the plates.
For this match (picture at bottom), I used a .677" WW ball patched with thicker 14 oz. denim.

Practice certainly helps and a lot of practice helps more. I used that rifle in 6 matches at Hefley that year, winning 5 of them. I only placed in the middle of the bunch, in the long range match
shooting against ctg. guns with aperture sights. I was quite happy with that result as well.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Here's my thoughts on measuring patch material.

When you seat a patched ball into the muzzle of your rifle, the material is squeezed extremely hard between the lead and the bore.  The patch material MUST be compressed at the bottoms of the grooves as well as the lands, otherwise blow-by will occur and accuracy loss, not to mention the real possibility of igniting the patch and causing a fire.

When one knows the bore diameter, groove diameter and diameter of the lead ball, it is easy to calculate the patch thickness required to give a good seal in the bottoms of the grooves...simple math.

Knowing how hard the material will be compressed, squeezing the material as hard as you can in a set of calipers (Vernier) using your thumb and fingers of both hands, is the only way you can accurately assess the patch's thickness once compressed.  The anvil(s) on a micrometer are too wide to simulate the lands of a rifle bore, so the Vernier's is the tool I use.

Works for me and those I shoot with.

[Daryl]

Further to Taylor's post above, when using the mic and cranking on the barrel, the force generated due to the fine thread is so extreme as to produce #'s that are meaningless.

The 12 oz. denim I spoke of, measuring .030" with squeezed calipers, I can actually get down to .005" with my mic. by really cranking on the barrel.

Some of the guys on this forum cannot load a ball .005" under bore size with a 10oz. denim I measure at .022" to .0225" using my calipers. I just cranking down on that material with my
mic and got .001". That's 1  thousandth of an inch.  So - what is it, .001" or .022/5?  Calipers and mic, both v/hard compressed.

I believe you should find a material you can load with, that shoots great and does not allow fouling to build in the bore- thus never needs wiping while shooting. That is my criteria. What the material measures with whatever tool you use, is immaterial (yeah - pun intended), but if it works for you, stick with it.  I know, that if a material measures .022" with my dial calipers, it will shoot
well in most of my guns.

Joanne's fabrics sells denim listed in ounce weights.  I have found that 8oz. will shoot fairly well in guns with square rifling, when using a (dead soft) ball .005" smaller than bore size.
 If using a .010" undersized ball, 10oz will likely shoot better and be more accurate(with either ball).  With rounded (deeper) rifling you will likely find you need a .005" undersized ball AND 10oz denim.

The light canvas that measures .022" with my calipers (compressed) loads harder for me with a .005" undersized ball than the 10oz denim I have, but - it shoots better and seals better in my GETZ .50 bl. I can still squeeze that down to whatever I want with my mic. abusing that instrument totally.
with rounded rifling.

To load tight combinations, which I find shoot best, requires a smoothly crowned barrel. The better this polishing and rounding of the corners cut by the bl. maker's machine, the easier loading you will have with ANY combination.

DaveC makes a tool to cut this crown.



Using different grades of emery or wet/dry paper and the end of your thumb, you can 'grind' this crown yourself. Some minor modicum of skill is required. Rotating the barrel frequently will
make this crown perfectly even.

[hanshi]

It's been my thought that a caliper is a good "stand-in" for the grooves, as far as compression is concerned.  By the way, what's the weight of blue jean denim?

[Daryl]

A lot of the blue jeans I have worn in the past (before - comfort fit  ) had .020" to .022" material as I measured it, compressed with calipers. From old jeans, the material from the back of the calf and back of the thigh areas was all that was usable as patch material, as the rest was too worn and inconsistent.
The last pair I had, actually had 12oz. denim, which I measure at .030" with calipers compressed and .025" with the ratchet on my mic.

[hanshi]

Thanks, Daryl.