Kentucky Rifle Replica

[lanching012]

hi all, i am new to the forum and recently purchased a .50 caliber, flintlock Kentucky Rifle by Traditions.
     This is my first black powder rifle and i was wondering if you could tell me EXACTLY what i needed to take it out and shoot it. i need to know the kind of powder(s) (and any specifics of grain) (don't you use two different kinds of powder for flintlocks), kind of shot, and the kind of patches.   Also i need to know how much black powder is supposed to be used in this particular rifle.
    i am new but greatly interested in this rifle. i appreciate all your help, even though these are questions that deal with the very basics of long rifles.

[billd]

Where are you from? 
Bill

[Harnic]

Lots of good info in a previous thread: http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=5219.0

[frontier gander]

i have the same rifle and i LOVE it. First thing i recommend you do is go to the ( rear only) Ad's and look at the Rich Pierce 5/8" flints. I use them on mine and they offer the best sparks on my kentucky.

Goex 3f, .490 round balls, .015 patches.

I did use a dremmel tool and added some depth to the pan after i installed an RMC venthole liner. The factory liner works just fine. Mine opened up after close to 2,000 shots so i replaced it with the RMC.  These rifles are F-A-S-T!!!


Minimum load traditions recommends is 50gr.  Max load is 110gr in 2f and 105gr in 3f.

I personally shoot 110gr 3f in mine so the Point of impact @ 100 yards is dead on.

[SCLoyalist]

Launching012,  Since you're a newcomer to muzzleloading I suggest you also invest in a book like  Sam Fadala's Black Powder Handbook as a good reference to answer a lot of basic questions.   If there's a muzzleloading club near you, get acquainted with them - finding a shooting buddy and mentor will help you learn the ins and outs faster.    I'd suggest you plan on initially working up a load for your rifle, with emphasis on shooting off a rest until you get that puppy grouping.   I made the mistake years ago on my first muzzleloader of only shooting offhand, and with the result I never knew how much of the resulting group size was from the rifle's inherent accuracy for a particular load and how much was from my shooting technique and aiming ability.

In answer to some of your particular questions:  2 types of powder?   Yes, usually (but not always) the pan is primed with a finer granulation powder than the main charge.  Use 2F or 3F for the main charge.  4F powder is very fine - not suitable for a main charge, but very good for priming.    For a main charge, conventional wisdom says you'll probably get best results somewhere between 50 and 75 or 80 grains.   Kind of shot:  Lead roundball:  I'd start with either 490 or .495 dia roundball and see which worked best.   Patching - pure cotton or linen, nominally 0.015" thick would be a good thickness to start with.  Lube your patching either with spit, mink oil,  Wonder lube, or the like.   There is a lot of experimentation to find just the right combination of powder, patch, patch lube, and ball that gives the tightest group out of a particular rifle.

Good luck and happy shooting.   SCL

[bob in the woods]

I don't own a Traditions rifle, but do shoot a few .50 cal flinters. Most often used load is 70 gr of 2F
or 3F GOEX.  Shot a lot of deer with that load.  100 to 110 grains seems heavy to me in a .50, but if it works for you, great.  You might try a crony on it, and see what the difference is between 110 and say 80 gr.  The Traditions barrels are , I believe , shorter than 42 inches, and you may be blowing some of that powder out the muzzle??  Just a thought. Again, if it works for you, why change.

[T*O*F]

Your loading depends on your intended purpose.

If paper targets, you don't have to kill them, only hit them accurately.  I have a .50 cal Traditions that I have shot for years.  I use 30 gr at 25 yards, 50 gr at 50 yards, and 70 gr at 100 yards.  All loads shoot to the same point of aim.

If hunting or shooting metallic knockdowns, you need a heavier load.  For this, you can shoot your most accurate load that is near max.  Even then, I only use my 70 gr load for hunting and it will go thru a deer at 100 yards.

[rdillon]

I use 80gr of 3f with a .480 ball (.490 is too tight) and .020 ticking with spit in my 38" Getz swamped B weight.  Shoots the same point of impact at 25 and 50 yards.  I little stout to shoot all day but much less then the 110gr as was said above.  More powder isn't always better!

[hanshi]

Much wisdom in the above posts, tomodachi.  Pay heed, learn and enjoy. 

[Candle Snuffer]

Remember to use only the real black powder, not the fake stuff.  Flintlocks don't like the fake stuff.

I use Goex 3fg in my flintlocks (.40, .45, .50) and I also use it as the priming powder but that's just me.  I have Goex 4fg to prime with but I seldom use it.  I guess I just like the one horn approach...

[Daryl]

Launching012 - your rifle will tell you how much powder to use, by starting low, say 60gr.3F and shooting on target off a rest. I'd set the target no closer than 40 yards once the sights are roughed in, then increase the powder charge every 5 shots by 5 grs.  Stop (and re-test with that load) when you have a group that represents the best your rifle will shoot.

Most rifles differ in what shoots best in them, just as many shooters have a different idea as to what is acceptable accuracy. One may demand 1" groups (on centres) or tighter at 50 yards, while to another, 2" or even 3" is just fine.

Most any load of powder will group 5 shots around 1" or better at 25 yards off a rest, but fail terribly at longer ranges.  Many of us test loads at 50 yards minimum.  If the rifle is zero'd at 25 yards, it is pretty much zeroed at 50 to 60 yards.

Many people use 3F up to .58 calibre, while many others use 2F. I prefer to have an accuracy load with both powders so whichever is available, I can still shoot accurately.  Most guys here use 2F in .50 cal, while I have accuracy loads with both granulation's in my .40 and .45 as well as the larger calibres. Generally, 2F requires 10 to 15gr. more powder to equal the accuracy and speed of 3F.

For example, my .45 needs 70gr. 3F to shoot accurately at 50 yards and beyond, but requires 80gr. 2F to match that accuracy. In the .40, it's 65gr. of 3F and 75gr. of 2F.

Whether you want to wipe the bore between shots, or demand the ability to shoot multiple shots, 20 or even many more without having to wipe, will also make a difference in the load requirements as to patch thickness and ball diameter.

We normally shoot balls that are .005" under bore size, with a denim patch that is .020" to .022" thick. Loading is quite easy (using a short starter) and we shoot all day without having to wipe the bore - the fouling NEVER builds up in the bore, no matter what the weather.

[hanshi]

Daryl, just for my own tests and for comparison, are you using volumetric measuring or grains my weight?   

[Daryl]

The easiest measures to make are from the .015" wall brass tubing I bought at a hobby store.  The tubing is sized to 'just' fit inside one another, from 1/16" OD right up to about 1" in diameter.  I use tubing that's about .45" to .48" outside diameter and merely put a dowel plug (carved sometimes) in one end,s ticking in about 1/2", then cross pin lock it with a riveted or glued peg. The tubing is then cut to the length that throws a specific charge.
 
I work up a load using an adjustable measure - it's easier that way. Then when I find a good load for that rifle or smoothbore, I make a measure that throws that amount, then I weigh it on a scale. When I relate what charge I use, I note the weighed amount as that is what my stricken measure throws.  I find a measure that is no more than .45" inside diameter throws more accurate charges than anything larger. While I love the looks of horn and bone measures, the fancier the better, they throw very inconsistent charges for me - several grs. different up and down, charge to charge. I find the brass tubes to throw, for me, within 1/2gr. one way or the other. A long, tall small diameter measure throws the most consistant charge.

[hanshi]

The easiest measures to make are from the .015" wall brass tubing I bought at a hobby store.  The tubing is sized to 'just' fit inside one another, from 1/16" OD right up to about 1" in diameter.  I use tubing that's about .45" to .48" outside diameter and merely put a dowel plug (carved sometimes) in one end,s ticking in about 1/2", then cross pin lock it with a riveted or glued peg. The tubing is then cut to the length that throws a specific charge.
 
I work up a load using an adjustable measure - it's easier that way. Then when I find a good load for that rifle or smoothbore, I make a measure that throws that amount, then I weigh it on a scale. When I relate what charge I use, I note the weighed amount as that is what my stricken measure throws.  I find a measure that is no more than .45" inside diameter throws more accurate charges than anything larger. While I love the looks of horn and bone measures, the fancier the better, they throw very inconsistent charges for me - several grs. different up and down, charge to charge. I find the brass tubes to throw, for me, within 1/2gr. one way or the other. A long, tall small diameter measure throws the most consistant charge.

I've made a couple dozen powder "carrier" tubes like that but not set for a particular charge.  I have a couple flask spouts that are dead on with weight.  My adjustable measures #1 & #2 don't agree so I put labels on them for the same caliber volume when I switch back & forth.  My 67 grain (by weight) is 75 grains in #1 and 80 grains in #2 which is a standard load for my .45.  I've made deer antler measures for various rifles because I like tinkering  and because......well, okay then, because they're cute.

[Daryl]

Flint r- I don't use pre-measured charges, sorry for the misunderstanding - I merely have made up so many different powder measures from tubing, antler and bone as to have them in 5 gr. increments, from about 45gr. through 140gr.