Middlesex village trading info please???

[lost arrow 801]

Hello fellow powder burners
Has anyone purchased anything from middlesex village trading.Im particularly intrested in their brown bess muskets and thier dragoon pistol.
Are these good muskets?
How long does it take to receive muskets?
Any help would be greatly appreciated
Thanks

[Hungry Horse]

Anything that seems to good to be true generally is. Look at the price of other known quality firearms of the same models. They’re a lot more expensive than Middlesex for a good reason.


  Hungry Horse

[Mike Brooks]

Junk made in India.

[smart dog]

Hi Lost Arrow,
Mike is basically right although there are some folks (I am not one as I share Mike's opinion) who think they are a good buy for the money.  There is a lot of talk about barrel safety but I am not aware that any of these India-made guns have had barrels fail.  I find that the locks are often badly made and heat treated and have worked over at least 7 or 8 Bess and Charleville India-made locks.  The stocks are usually teak, which bears little resemblance to original guns and the stock work varies from acceptable to pretty poor. The guns are not historically accurate. The best supplier of India-made muskets in North America is Loyalist Arms.  They at least make an effort to inspect and work over the guns to improve their performance.  Middlesex Valley not so much.  There are some folks who will inevitably respond, "well I have such and such and it works for me" and others saying their guns were junk.  All that kind of testimony tells you is that there is likely a quality control problem and a purchase is hit or miss.

dave 

[Daryl]

Hello fellow powder burners
Has anyone purchased anything from middlesex village trading.Im particularly intrested in their brown bess muskets and thier dragoon pistol. (YES)
Are these good muskets? (NO)
How long does it take to receive muskets? (1WEEK)
Any help would be greatly appreciated
Thanks

[Marcruger]

I posted this last week in another thread, but I think it applies here too.....

<<<The person who got me into muzzleloading said this when I asked why there were no "middle priced" muzzleloaders.  He said, "Once past inexpensive production guns and kits, you get into hand labor.  An experienced gun maker might work a month on a longrifle.  Say, 160 hours.  Since they are not unskilled, minimum wage workers, what should they be paid?  $20 an hour?  Well, that's $3,200.00 in labor.  That is without parts.  $200 for a barrel, $200 for a lock, $200 for curly maple, $200 for the rest.  Right there you are at $4,000.00.  So what do you want to scrimp on?  If paid minimum wage, you are still into a $2,400.00 gun.  That is why decent muzzleloaders cost money."  Is $2,400 to $4,000 a lot of money for a gun?  You betcha.  But once you look into the economics, you'll see why the price is what it is.  No gunmaker is getting rich off of doing this, even ones with a great reputation.  They are doing it because they love it.>>>

I was once looking at inexpensive guns too, but found that they were unsatisfying if you are interested in history and what the real guns were like.  That said, keep an eye peeled on the for sale section here on ALR.  Mr Alford just sold a beautiful NC rifle on here for less than $2000.  Quite often you'll see a nice used gun here for $1200 - $1500 or so.  Keep your eyes peeled, be patient, and you can end up with a nice gun. 

If you are looking for something to hang on the wall, that is a different story. 

God Bless,   Marc

[lost arrow 801]

I agree entirely. I've purchased and completed a couple of rifle kits. One from TOTW and a colonial from Jim Kibler. Im very pleased with both. When I saw the Middlesex website I was wondering if this would be a good option for a musket.
Im a working college student single parent, which means for the most part Im usually low on cash.
One of the reasons I started making my own gear was because I couldn't afford it. Of course now I love it, with my limited time Im focusing on smaller projects like simple  bags. Knifes horns etc. I do want a musket pretty bad i just cant afford a good kit. The pesersoli bess looks nice but its a 1200 dollar bill, a little much for the moment. Middlesex is about half that.
With all the scams and $#@* out there I thought I would ask the people I recieve the best advice from.
Is there a good option out there for a production Brown bess or chareville musket for less than 800 new?

[bob in the woods]

Many questions come to mind. Is historical accuracy important ?  The Pedersoli has some issues in that dept. Why a musket ? Specifically why a Brown Bess etc . If you want a large bore smoothbore which would / could have seen military service , Chambers has a couple of kits which would work. The New England Fowling gun is available in up to a 10 bore and the Officer's Fusil is a 20 bore . My own NE fowling gun in 10 bore has seen long use. It is a fabulous gun and totally authentic .

[WadePatton]

I agree entirely. I've purchased and completed a couple of rifle kits. One from TOTW and a colonial from Jim Kibler. Im very pleased with both ... for less than 800 new?

If you're pleased with your work on those kits, then why not build another and make it -right- not just a fixed up import that will always be somewhat "off the mark".  You'll have a better lock and bbl automagically.

[lost arrow 801]

Many questions come to mind. Is historical accuracy important ?  The Pedersoli has some issues in that dept. Why a musket ? Specifically why a Brown Bess etc . If you want a large bore smoothbore which would / could have seen military service , Chambers has a couple of kits which would work. The New England Fowling gun is available in up to a 10 bore and the Officer's Fusil is a 20 bore . My own NE fowling gun in 10 bore has seen long use. It is a fabulous gun and totally authentic .

I'm ready for a smoothie but truly I want a bayonet.

[bob in the woods]

I have a bayonet for my N.E.fowler.   It's a plug bayonet, and meets the requirement for my militia unit.

[Scota4570]

https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/GunKit.aspx/603/1/1746-BROWN-BESS-MUSKET-PARTS-LIST

Have no experience with this one.  It does cut costs and could be a fun build.

[bob in the woods]

Having the lock available fully assembled is a real help.  They were only offered as parts before, and that prevented or rather deterred a lot of folks from building one of these guns.

[Daryl]

The 47 would be a good one, wooden rod and plug bayonet standard.

[Mike Brooks]

Having the lock available fully assembled is a real help.  They were only offered as parts before, and that prevented or rather deterred a lot of folks from building one of these guns.

Lock is on "BACK ORDER".....and at $169 I would think it will be on back order for some time.

[Frank]

You can buy a new Pedersoli Brown Bess for the price of that kit. Don’t see Track of the Wolf selling many.

[smart dog]

Hi,
The Pedersoli Bess is a franken-musket based on a prototype supplied by Val Forgett back in the 1950s or early 1960s.  At the time they really did not know much about pattern designations based on the original warrant specifications and still referred to models, something British ordnance never did. The Pedersoli needs a lot of work to bring closer to historical accuracy ( https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/new-reworking-a-pedersoli-brown-bess.107405/).  Other than the barrels, I don't believe any India-made, Pedersoli, or Miroku Bess repros would ever have passed British ordnance inspection during the 18 century.  Pedersoli barrels would fail because they don't have a swivel lug brazed on.  The Pedersoli and Miroku Besses are pattern 1769 short land muskets (the Pedersoli has the wrong contractor and date on the lock) so if you want a long land musket you either build one from part sets or get an India-made one. I am sure TOW sells plenty of their Bess kits to re-enactors needing a musket dating to before 1771, the date the first 1769 short land muskets appeared in North America.

dave   

[Mick C]

You may want to consider just hanging tight and watching for a used Petersoli, or even an  older Navy Arms or Miroku, to come up for sale.  If you make a habit to regularly searching sites such as gunbroker.com or gunsamerica.com there's a good chance you'll find one in the $800.00 range in due time.  I promise that you will be much happier that you held off for a better made gun than getting instant gratification with an Indian made one.

[thecapgunkid]

I don't like to disparage, but I bought a "Ranger"  Bess from them and, when running a patch, noticed that the bore swelled inside the barrel about two thirds of the way down.  Before I got rid of it I replaced the barrel with a Track purchase because I was afraid some guy I didn't know would blow his head off with the thing.  The rest of the gun wasn't all that bad, ( else I would not have flipped it) but there are too many bro's here picking them apart.   Take the hints.