Brown Bess

[JTR]

Thanks for the pictures!
Do you guys have any idea of the time period a flat faced Dublin Castle flintlock would have been made? I have that lock as a replacement lock on one of my longrifles, and am guessing 1820-ish, or so?

Thanks, John

[Niall]

I think Dublin Castle ceased production of Ordinance arms around 1798 so it's earlier than your estimate. What size is the lock?  Is it a pistol lock? Maybe throw up a few photos

[JTR]

Okay, I'll dig it out of the safe and take a few pictures.

[JTR]

Here's a couple pictures of the Dublin Castle lock. I don't know if the lock is original to the gun, but it's every bit as rusty as the barrel, so has been there for a long time. The internals looks old and original.

[WESTbury]

See page 166 of De Witt Bailey's Small Arms of the British Forces in America for similar pistol lock Pattern 1777 Extra Flat Pistol Lock. Looks as though the cock on yours has been changed, should be goose neck type.

[Niall]

See page 166 of De Witt Bailey's Small Arms of the British Forces in America for similar pistol lock Pattern 1777 Extra Flat Pistol Lock. Looks as though the cock on yours has been changed, should be goose neck type.

Looks like a pistol lock assembled at Dublin Castle from various parts.There's a few anomalies;The lockplate seems older than quoted as it looks to have a slight 'banana' shape ?? . It has the later (say post c.1763) short sear spring as we're seeing two screws behind the cock. Some of the older Dublin made locks have a ring necked cock but WESTbury may be correct in saying the present one is a replacement??  The frizzen spring is a replacement as it has a later  type finial.

So I would say a later second half 18th. century Dublin Castle pistol lock repurposed for an american longrifle.

[Pukka Bundook]

Good morning Niall,

Good observation.
Are you my pal from the BMF channel?     

Richard.

[WESTbury]

The cock on the lock of JTR's lock "appears" to be one from the Pattern 1800 & 1805 Infantry Rifle per Bailey's Small Arms book, mentioned in my previous post, page 75. That lock, per Bailey, was 1-1/16 x 5-3/8.

The crown on JTR'S lockplate is the "cartoonish" crown per Bailey's Small Arms book, shown on page 166.

From JTR'S photos, the fence of the pan is to the rear of the end of the barrel. Also it appears as though whoever adapted the lock to the rifle needed to drill and tap a new rear lock bolt hole as it wiped out the upper part of the crown on the plate.

Niall's observation about the lock on JTR'S rifle being an assembly of disassociated parts is very accurate. American Ingenuity at its best.
 

[Niall]

Good morning Niall,

Good observation.
Are you my pal from the BMF channel?     Richard.

 

[JTR]

Here's a couple more pictures.
I took a close look in the lock mortise, and this isn't the first lock in this rifle, so this lock is a replacement. The stock has been broken through the wrist area, so perhaps the original lock was lost or damaged at the time.
When I bought the gun, an old friend thought it might be a Kentucky made rifle, but I lean more toward a New York gun now, either way probably made about 1820 or so.

Thanks for your thoughts so far!
John

[WESTbury]

Even though it's a pieced together lock, it is pretty cool.

I'd be interested to see the fit of the cock to the square of the tumbler. In other words, was there any modification needed to mount the replacement cock.

[JTR]

Kent, The screw came out easily and the cock off the tumbler shaft with a bit of persuasion. The square on the shaft measures .232", and the square on the cock measures about .240", so a pretty good fit.
The timing at the at rest position of the cock is a bit off, as I had to pull it back about an eighth of an inch to allow the shoulder of the cock to rest on the top of the lock plate.
Pulling the rear trigger (the forward one is missing) does set off the lock, so in fact the gun would work as is.

[WESTbury]

That's all great info John.
 
So I think the fact that the timing of the rest position is off somewhat argues that the cock is in fact a replacement. However, the lock functions correctly, and that is the most important point.

If you have any photos of the rifle and can post them, would be great.

Thanks for indulging my curiosity, appreciate it.