Author Topic: Cumberland Show Find (Read 3484 times)

Ky-Flinter · « **on:** February 10, 2020, 06:25:35 AM »

Last year I found a cool old lock at the show. This year, its a stock and barrel. No lock. What do I have here?

The barrel is 40-3/8" long and about 16 guage and has some touchmarks shown below.

Bottom flat, letter "G".

Is this "LG" x'ed out?

Thanks for any input.

-Ron

rich pierce · « **Reply #1 on:** February 10, 2020, 06:49:31 AM »

Parts gun is my best guess. I’ve got an identical buttplate I picked off eBay.

Niall · « **Reply #2 on:** February 10, 2020, 12:56:47 PM »

The barrel is probably by Richard Wilson of London who made a lot of guns for export.
https://americansocietyofarmscollectors.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/2002-B85-The-Wilsons-Gunmakers-to-Empire-1730-183.pdf

smart dog · « **Reply #3 on:** February 10, 2020, 03:25:16 PM »

Hi,
Richard Wilson was long dead before that gun was made. I could be his son. It looks like a trade gun from the early 19th century. The LG on the bottom of the barrel probably is the barrel maker. The big X and slash mark probably are just production numbers identifying the components that go with individual guns.

dave

Niall · « **Reply #4 on:** February 10, 2020, 04:59:18 PM »

Quote from: smart dog on February 10, 2020, 03:25:16 PM

Hi,
Richard Wilson was long dead before that gun was made. I could be his son. It looks like a trade gun from the early 19th century. The LG on the bottom of the barrel probably is the barrel maker. The big X and slash mark probably are just production numbers identifying the components that go with individual guns.

dave

The barrels made by Wilson are stamped RW with a six pointed star over.These are the marks on this barrel. Whether it's Richard, or his successors ,the stamp is the same.The proofs might date it a bit better.

rich pierce · « **Reply #5 on:** February 10, 2020, 06:37:44 PM »

Is it stocked in Euro walnut?

The guard does not seem to fit with the rest.

Ky-Flinter · « **Reply #6 on:** February 11, 2020, 04:41:57 AM »

Quote from: rich pierce on February 10, 2020, 06:37:44 PM

Is it stocked in Euro walnut?

The guard does not seem to fit with the rest.

I'm not sure I would know Euro walnut if one fell on me. It looks like plain maple to me. There is some faint fine curl stripes on the comb and toe line of the butt.

I agree on the trigger guard. It's kinda crude, heavy and iron. The rest of the mounts are brass and finely made.

-Ron

Ky-Flinter · « **Reply #7 on:** February 11, 2020, 06:50:23 AM »

Thanks to all for your input. The Crown over CP began use in 1637 and the Crown over V in 1670. I wouldn't expect this barrel to be that early, even if in a restock. Is there any source for finding info on the likely barrel maker "LG"?

-Ron

Niall · « **Reply #8 on:** February 11, 2020, 01:35:09 PM »

I don't think the stock is the original English made one.Maybe the original was used as a copy with the addition of some Colonial flavour. The stock shape has undergone some evolution. Doesn't appear to be walnut?? Triggerguard is an orphan.

Ky-Flinter · « **Reply #9 on:** February 11, 2020, 04:10:02 PM »

In most of the pictures the wood appears darker than it is in real life. The picture of the entry pipe shows the wood pretty close to the actual color.

-Ron

smart dog · « **Reply #10 on:** February 11, 2020, 04:43:03 PM »

Hi Ron,
The 2 marks with crowns are the London Gunmaker's Guild view and final proof marks. It is not "CP" but "GP". The style of deep stamped oval predates 1813. It indicates the barrel was London proofed not at the Tower or in Birmingham. The barrel is stamped with Richard Wilson's mark, which was used by his son well after he died in 1766. The "LG" may be an "IG". I cannot see it clearly in the photos. The barrel could be made in Birmingham but proofed in London by Wilson. It appears to be a common trade gun style barrel. Superficially, the wood does not look like walnut but possibly maple. The mix of the iron guard and the other brass hardware strongly suggests to me a restocked gun possible in America after the Rev War. The style of the stock seems later than colonial America and much more late 18th, early 19th century.

dave

Pukka Bundook · « **Reply #11 on:** February 11, 2020, 05:55:34 PM »

Dave and Niall,

I must admit I still have my doubts about Richard Wilson in this case.
The star looks too "Spidery " to me and the R looks wrong.

Here are some photos of a Richard Wilson pistol barrel, badly struck, but you will see the star appears much thicker and the R looks different.
I wondered about the star being a later struck /made up broad arrow type of thing?
I am not saying I know anything about this really, just some doubts on my part...

Niall · « **Reply #12 on:** February 11, 2020, 06:22:41 PM »

Richard,

I can appreciate your doubts but ,all things considered, I still think it's a Richard Wilson barrel.

Dave,

When I say 'Colonial' I'm probably not using it in the dating sense as you may understand it but as more of a general comment.Slightly humourous,but then ,maybe not

.You probably have a better grasp of the details than me.

Ky-Flinter · « **Reply #13 on:** February 11, 2020, 07:34:59 PM »

Dave,

Thanks for the additional info, esp. correction of my assumption of CP to the correct GP and dating of the deep stamped oval marks. I'm still learning

I'll see if I can get better views of the stamps on the bottom of the barrel.

Thanks again everyone for the comments. Much appreciated.

-Ron

rich pierce · « **Reply #14 on:** February 15, 2020, 05:55:28 PM »

Identical buttplate found on eBay.

JTR · « **Reply #15 on:** February 15, 2020, 07:37:41 PM »

I've only had a few English guns, but none had the barrel marked LONBON? It was always LONDON.

So what's up with the LONBON marking?
Caps are mine.

Curiously, John

vanu · « **Reply #16 on:** February 16, 2020, 12:26:07 AM »

Looks like it is stamped LONDON, i believe that is just a well placed dent!

LynnC · « **Reply #17 on:** February 16, 2020, 05:33:25 AM »

Ky-Flinter · « **Reply #18 on:** February 16, 2020, 05:58:43 AM »

Here are a couple more pictures of the stamps on the bottom of the barrel.

This one looks like LG to me. Other opinions?

I put a little white chalk on this one to help it show up. It looks like the stamp was held at an angle, light on the left, heavier on the right.

-Ron

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Author Topic: Cumberland Show Find (Read 3484 times)