2F vs 3F in 58 cal smoothbore

[Smooth58]

Hey all new to this sight so I’m sure it’s been asked but was out shooting the smoothbore this morning got good load worked up, it is 58 cal Wilson tradegun was using 60gr 2F with dry felt O/P wad, .550 roundball with .015 patch lubed with mink oil, at 25yds would hold 1” to touching groups, but that 2F is really dirty when wiping out barrel would pull out lot of crud, was wandering if 3F would be better but how to figure out the 3F charge to match 2F charge thanks

[Bob McBride]

i've found about 50/50 on my .58s whether they like 2f or 3f. Difference is something on the order of 80g of 3f is equal to 100 of 2f, IME.

[smylee grouch]

How tight was that 550 /patch combination? A too loose combination will get you blow by with more fouling.Try some different combos and only change on variable at a time and shoot at 50 yd.

[Smooth58]

The .550 prb goes down nice, not to hard not to loose, I tried .562 before but it was little to tight with .015 patch. I was worried about blow by but that’s why I was using the dry felt wad over the powder, that seemed to keep groups consistent, yea your right need to see what the groups do at 50yds but started getting crowded this morning so couldn’t get to shoot at 50 yds.  Sounds like maybe should try 50gr 3F to start then
 

[rich pierce]

Is that felt wad lubed? That could help keep fouling from accumulating.

[WadePatton]

Forget calculations, work up a load for 3F the same as you did 2F. 

Are you wiping between shots or groups?  Rear sight on that gun?

Welcome to the ALR.

[Smooth58]

No the felt wad is not lubed just patch, yea swabbing bore between shots and no I don’t have rear sight.

[Herb]

See my post below on "Powder Comparisons".  In a 36" barreled .58 rifled barrel, 100 grains weight of Goex 3F gave 1651 fps, or 16.5 fps per grain of powder.  100 weight of Goex 2F gave 1608 fps,or 16 fps per grain.  16.5 divided into 16 means the 3F needs only 97 percent as much powder for the same velocity (theoretically).  97 percent of your 60 grains of 2F is 58 grains of 3F.  Theoretically.  Now, what kind of 60 grains do you have?   A bulk measure or a weight corrected measure?  I have actually found a measure to hold more weight of Goex 2F than 3F.  Weigh your "60 grains of 2F" and see what it is.  Then correct on the weight, to be 2 grains less.  I'd ignore the difference and do as Wade says and just shoot it.

[Pukka Bundook]

I think using "search" would bring up this topic lots of times...

[WadePatton]

No the felt wad is not lubed just patch, yea swabbing bore between shots and no I don’t have rear sight.

Just on the wiping aspect, here's little thread from 7 years or so ago with lots of discussion.  I can't advise on smoothie combo sizing, but do know that you want the fabric impression left on the lead in the grooves of a rifle. I'd assume you'd want just a touch of such impression into the Pb of your ball in a smoothie as well, and in your case- at .55 plus .015 plus .015 in a .58, you're not going to get any. 

Also there can be discrepancies to patch measurements by makers and by shooters.  Here's the one on wiping (there are many others like it-but this one is mine  )  :

 https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=24921.0


For load development work, I'd be benched (not saying your aren't but sometimes I hear of guys trying to make up a load, and shooting offhand!!!)  and likely add a rear of some sort. Some use high strength magnets (the square ones with a hole).

[Daryl]

We shot the trail yesterday and as usual, Norm shot his Pennsylvania flower, a 20 bore, with his normal .020" patch, .595" ball and 85gr. 3F.
He shot the trail without having to wipe, not once. None of us has to wipe while shooting.  The gun gets wiped out after we've 'repaired' to
our homes to clean them. No sense in wiping instead of shooting. There is also, with the combinations we use, no reason wipe them while
shooting.