Dovetail in the waist screw up

[Justin Urbantas]

I really like the short gun too. It was made for hunting boar from horseback. Very handy, and fast pointing. Big bore for close range power, and easy to fire one handed.  The Swedish had similar guns called sled rifles.

[smallpatch]

I feel your pain.  Back in the day, I did the same thing on a slim Colerain barrel.  Instead of a 44" swamped barrel, I now have a 29" and a 13" tapered barrels.
Bet you don't do it again.

[alacran]

A lot has been said about proofing barrels and proof loads. The first muzzleloader I built from scratch was a Hawken it had a no name barrel and also was my first breech plug installation. I had a Dixie catalog that had proof loads information on the back pages.  I don't remember their source, but I believe it was from the US ordinance corps.  IT stated to use a double standard load with two tightly patched balls on top. That first barrel was .45 cal, so I figured 60 grains of 3f would be a standard load. I loaded the barrel with 120 grains of 3 f with two teflon patched 440 balls on top. The barrel did not blow. I debreached it and did a visual inspection of the barrel. That rifle went on to win many matches for me. When ever I proof test a barrel that is how I do it.

[577SXS]

If you have .060 wall thickness at bottom of dovetail you should have no issues. Black powder pressures are only about 28000 psi in a cartridge gun at max. In a front loader your pressures are going to be much lower. Myself and a good friend who has three types of pressure testing equipment did many tests with black powder cartridge loads and I don't think any went over 24000 psi. We also did a barrel thickness test and turned a barrel down to .022 wall the last 8 inches of a modern .458 smokeless cartridge rifle and had no issues. I also turned barrel down to .062 wall 1 inch in front of chamber and we fired many 62000 psi loads through it with no damage. Muzzleloader barrels are made from many types of steels and I don't think many are made from 4140 like most chromemoly cartridge rifle barrels are made from. Even if a muzzleloader barrel is made from low carbon non heat treated steel I still think .060 wall isn't a problem. I shoot a lot of old hammer shotguns that have barrels that are extremely thin even close to chamber and are damascus. Black powder shotgun shells probably have pressures in the 4000 to 6000 psi range. I doubt that a patched ball would have pressures anywhere near a  black powder cartridge. I've never done a muzzleloader pressure test but it may be something I might look into for the fun of it.

**I am going to leave these references to modern cartridge guns since it does give us some good information on powder pressures.  Please do not get into further discussion on cartridge guns since this is against our rules.. Dennis**

[577SXS]

Sorry about talking about cartridge guns, but I did think it related to the subject.

I have another thought, If concerned about your dovetail depth just get someone that know what his is doing to TIG weld up the dovetail and then recut it to a shallower depth.

[jerrywh]

I am a very good tig welder even if I say so.  If you tig a barrel at that point it will likely choke it. Just put in your lug and proof it. Alacran has the correct loading proceedure. It will not blow out even with a heavier load than that. I have proofed at least 50 barrels. Call it bragging if you want to but I am 83 and have been working on guns since I was 18 never had one blow up and proofed every gun I ever built. I only knew of two barrels that blew up. One was a Thompson center. The guy loaded one full load on top of another. Now we call him bad hand. The other was a home made blunderbuss, the barrel was made out of so called seamless tubing.  Believe me it wasn't seamless. It blew up with a standard load when proofed.  The guy who built it was Jim Wolford. He is now passed away. That was 40 years ago.

[Potsy]

A buddy of mine knows a skilled TIG welder.  I have NO experience with it (done a little stick and MIG and that's it).  We had discussed that option just yesterday, but I worried about the heat.  I suppose it's a pretty low heat type weld, though Jerry's post just spooked me a bit.  Would like to hear more on that.

I don't doubt Alacran at all.  But I can't help it if the though of double powder (which wouldn't bother me, by itself) and a second ball (!) makes me more than a bit nervous.  Even without a thin spot.........phew..........

[Acer Saccharum]

Don't even consider welding the barrel. Best case scenario is that the bore will shrink. It's going to shrink. Even if you can get a ball past the welded area, who knows where it will hit on the target.

Worst case, the weld creates a hard zone, which is brittle. Then you could blow the barrel. THAT would be bad.

[jerrywh]

Tig welding can be done without creating a hard spot but that portion of the barrel will shrink or choke.
 If it were at the chamber end it would not be a problem but not in that portion of the barrel. Look up shrinking metal on you tube. Maybe that will help you to understand why. Body men use this technique  all the time.  I once proofed a 11 ga. shotgun barrel with 300 grains of FFG and 6 oz of #6 shot, three times. I still have that gun. Shot it lots.  I won't tell you what the barrel was made of. The guys on here would go nuts.

[LynnC]

I had a tennon welded back onto a thin wall smooth bore barrel because it had been pulled loose so many times there wasnt metal enough left to move and hold it. Under the tennon the bbl was less than 1/16” thick and was maybe 10” from the breech. I was in disbelief that there wasn't even a hint of heat scale in the bore.  I have been shooting it with no problems.

[jerrywh]

Before you chop up a good barrel. Go proof it with 200 grns of ffg and a double patched ball a couple times. If it blows then chop it up.

[Carl Young]

I have made a few barrels for myself, not for sale (though i did make a few for Phil Orem before he died 30+ years ago). I think I am reasonably cautious. I would probably plug the dovetails and solder them. If I really had doubts, I would do as Jerry Huddleston says and proof them, he has a lot of experience and knowledge. Welding is within my abilities having built/rebuilt a number of steel framed airplanes, but I would be very cautious about welding a barrel depending on what kind of steel it is. Here is a page with info on my concerns about welding free-machining steels: https://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-us/support/welding-solutions/Pages/grades-of-steel.aspx

Off-topic Disclaimer: I don't claim to be normal. I grew up in Alabama with family and friends who were metallurgists, chemists, engineers, nuclear physicists, and rocket scientists. What we made then as teenagers are no longer acceptable in modern society. When I was 14 my Dad was a pal of the Chief of Police in Birmingham. He was showing us his new armored car. I said I can shoot thru that. He didn't believe me until I did it with a PD issued M1 and ball ammo using a technique the British discovered in WW1. He asked my Dad how does he know that? My Dad said I taught him how to read. Chief was mad I shot a hole in his new bullet proof car 
Carl