If Old were new What would you think?

[Jim Filipski]

I propose this topic: Not sure if it should be here or elsewhere ( let the powers that be move it if necessary)
Now this requires some deep thinking and not a knee jerk reaction!

Pick your most favorite old gun & imagine it pristine & brand new right from the gunsmith shop. No age, no wear & tear etc.
Again this is going to use your brain, remember that!!!!
Would it still be your favorite old gun when it is brand spanking new?
This borders a bit on the psychological impact of viewing a great old gun...for instance the "Ed Marshal rifle" How much are we taken not only by the lines but it's age ( with all the nicks & scratches)

I'm just throwing this out there.
I have been building for better then half my life. While I try to build somewhat pristine for my clients I kind of like the "grunge" of age And I realize doing that type of work takes more talent.
I'm not talking about etching metal and black spray paint here ...I'm talking about where the proper wear would be and a scratch and gouge that doesn't look out of place but part of the gun's history.
So look at your favorites and ask yourself if they were pristine when you first saw them would they stick in your mind!
Just throwing this out there for discussion.
Jim

[T*O*F]

Would it still be your favorite old gun when it is brand spanking new?

There's no way to tell.  A gun isn't your favorite when you first buy it.  That title has to be earned through usage.  We often buy guns and are disappointed in them, or build one that we thought we would like but are disappointed in it too.  We may have many guns on our racks, but only one or two that have earned our respect enough to be called "favorite" and they may not be the most expensive or fanciest.

[Jim Filipski]

TOF I guess what I was trying to say:  If you picked your favorite "antique original gun" as we see it today ( with patina wear & tear and it's history to tell) Would you still like it if you saw it when it was brand new?
Granted many originals have great lines & hold well & that can not be denied but Is is their mystique and their look of age & history that may make us love it so well? 

[Dave K]

It is a personal question. I like my ml'ers to look new. New, just as if D.Boone had bought it. It is up to me to add the years of patina. With that in mind, I hope to take better care if it than that. Kind of a thought that makes me snicker. If we try to create patina on the outside of a new gun, why not on the inside as well? That is the way many of these old guns were found anyhow. Many are trying to copy that "as found" look.

[Robby]

Jim, I think I understand your question. Its hard to pick out one favorite, but I would say yes on some of my favorites and no on others. Even if we don't address it with a cognitive mind set, I think anything like an old gun, tool, or even an old chair reaches something deep inside us that gives us a feeling of kinship with it, it was held, used, cared for, and those that did all that, are gone. To my way of thinking, that is part of what makes us human.
Robby

[tuffy]

Jim, my answer to that would be yes. Have you ever picked up a tool for the first time and thought "This sure feels good to the touch"? You immediately like the tool, and when you use it for the first time you know you made the right choice. If you've ever lost or misplaced such a tool, you just feel kind of sick about it. You can never replace that individual tool even with the same type and maker. It was something that grew on or with you. A favorite gun is no different.

[JTR]

Yep, I can think of one for sure.
While I certainly enjoy the look of originals with all the charm and patina, if I could pick just one to see brand spanking new from the makers hand to mine, it would have to be the Dickert I bought a couple years ago. I'm sure it would have been love at first sight!
And even though it's seen a long 200+ years and had plenty of changes made to it, it's still my favorite rifle!
John

[rich pierce]

For me the test of how much this matters to me is my reaction to an old rifle found in near pristrine condition, or restored to that condition.   Take RCA 42 (really clean)  versus the Marshall rifle (cleaned up but showing a ton of wear).  I love them both.

Then there's the "Ghost" rifle by Peter Resor shown in Steel Canvas page 39, which is nearly pristine.  Love that rifle.

So for me, it doesn't make that much of a difference.  I can imagine the adventures associated with wear on a rifle, but a great rifle is a great rifle.

[J.D.]

IMHO, just from pictures, for me, it's line and form; the pleasing lines of certain guns. Add  excellent handling characteristics to  graceful lines, then you get a favorite piece, no matter if new or old.

IMHO, The patina that comes through honest use is infinitely more pleasing than an artificially aged piece...unless, of course, the patina is applied by Mr. Kettenburg. 

God bless

[northmn]

There is a picture of one in my Johnson's book that I have to build.  Of all the rifles pictured that one strikes the fancy.  Not even built by a more famous maker, just a very classic Lancaster.

DP

[flehto]

To specifically answer the question....LRs by  John Shuler and some unknown Bucks County makers, Jacob Feree and Isaac Berlin fascinate me and viewing them when new would be to me, a whole lot better than seeing them in their present state, although if the opportunity arose to view them tomorrow, I'd take it w/o hesitation. Personally, of the few originals that I've seen, the plus 200 yrs of aging did detract from the esthetics but seeing I'm not a collector, I think that's understandable......Fred

[J. Talbert]

Since I already have a great liking for original Geo Eister rifles, I'd have to say it would be pretty cool to see one in showroom condition.

I guess the closest I may ever come is likely Jim Kibler's rendition.   If you didn't see it at last year's CLA, look for it on Charlie's table this year.

Jeff

[Bucksnort]

I would like the old new. All the grime dents and dings I feel take away from the piece. I enjoy the lines, the grain of the wood, the colors, think about how the gun was built no electricty, power tools, no Woodcraft store to buy tools, no internet for research or how to. You know when the days work was done start a fire in the stove and cook dinner, a cold brew was probly warm unless it was winter. My guns get wear and some dings but these are memories of good times, not knowing the memory it is just a ding. Duane 

[volatpluvia]

Before I built my yeager, I went to see George Shumway.  I got to handle the four of his collection that He had not yet sold.  They felt wonderful and it was an inspiration for building the one I wanted.  He even directed me to Houston Harrison for a blueprint of the rifle I wanted to make.
I built the rifle with all the skill I could muster.  The only ding on it was where I lost a small piece from the toe of the stock.  I left it rather than repair it.  It was simply the first of many dings.  I loved it brand new.  I loved it while it gathered its considerable 'patina'.  The icing on the cake was when someone at a shoot asked if it was an original.  I was honest about it.
So, when a gonne is new I like it new.  As it gathers honest history I like it with honest history, etc.
volatpluvia

[Don Getz]

Interesting question Jim.   I would have to think a long time to determine which one I would like to have, "brand new".
I still like those Beck rifles, but there are others too, would be a hard decision.............Don

[hyltoto]

I always like Adolph Rupps work.  I think I would prefer the older, because that means someone else had to go thru the sighting-in hassle! I'm a pragmatist.