Lyman bag test run, things went wrong.... learning experience

[Brokennock]

I'm basically copying and pasting this here from my post on another forum. Hopefully others can learn from my mistakes.  It's a but long but stick with me, I'd rather give more explanation at 1st and avoid extra questions later.



Looks okay at 1st.
But, things aren't right. I always try to make a template to play with how things go together when making something I haven't made before. The template worked out fine. I also try to do a "proof of concept" made of material that is either sacrificial or that I have a lot of.
In this case I wanted to make this of thicker veg. tan but don't have much. This leather looks really nice, I have made shoulder slung shot pouches of it before, and I have quite a bit of it. Because it is thin I used some scrap leather that is thicker and almost cardboard stiff for the belt loops so the bag doesn't flop in use.
So, everything worked out with the template. I carefully traced and cut my pattern with the leather. And tried my new stitching clamp.




The clamp is one thing that went right, it makes things a lot easier,


But here is the first minor problem. The linen thread has a little end sticking out the side where more fiber was added while spinning the thread. I hoped it would land in a hole, nope, hoped wax would hold it down, nope. Not sure what if anything can be done about it. Minor problem compared to the rest.
Everything lined up nicely with my template. But, that was thin cardboard, the leather is half again as thick, maybe a little more. I didn't allow for this thickness at the fold across the bottom. So, when I add the center divider, none of the edges line up any more. I trimmed some material off the bottom of the divider, that helped a little. I'm hoping I have enough material from the stitch line to the edges to be able to sand the edges fairly even.
So I called it done except for standing the edges, maybe wet molding some volume into it, and oiling/greasing the leather.








Next, and bigger, problem. I didn't want to fight sewing inside such a small pouch to attach the button after it is sewn together. So I marked out the hole, and the button placement and attached the button before assembling the pouch. Everything lines up nice, when it is flat.
But, when I put anything in it, even something as thin as my phone, the flap doesn't reach the button. I should have expected this, I usually make my shoulder slung pouches with an oversize flap because I have had this issue before. Not sure what I'll do to fix it. The button hole is too close to the flap edge to extend it down much. If I try to move the button up, I'll be left with two holes in the front of the bag.

Hopefully someone can learn from my mistakes. Luckily I would call this a "proof of concept" and can correct these issues on the next one.

[Brokennock]

Right now my plan is to cut the flap, and maybe pink the edge of the cut, just below the fold, in front, and sew on a longer piece of leather. After I wet mold a little volume into the bag, I will plan where to cut it for length, and where to put the button hole. Then cut it and punch the hole.

Is there a "rule of thumb," to follow when laying these things out and making the pattern/template, to get the right size flap accounting for the bag being full, and, to account for the thickness of the divider?

[RoaringBull]

How about removing the button, and attaching it to a small tab and sew the other end of the tab to the bag and cover the two holes the button left? Sew the tab on first and decide after testing how long the tab needs to be when the bag is full.

[Marcruger]

You could shorten the flap and sew a tab with a buttonhole to the flap. I slot my buttonholes by making a hole at each end, then two cuts to make an oval hole. That way the flap can move up to expand as the bag fills. I hope this helps!  God bless, Marc

[RoaringBull]

Sew the tab over the button hole, with a piece of leather front and back.

[G. Elsenbeck]

" Is there a "rule of thumb," to follow when laying these things out and making the pattern/template, to get the right size flap accounting for the bag being full, and, to account for the thickness of the divider? "Not sure if these are 'rules', but when making your pattern I always make an allowance for the flap fold depending on the leather thickness, say anywhere from 1/4 to 1/2 inch.  This is essential when designing a project similar to the Lyman pouch as it helps to make sure the flap isn't too large or too small.  Now, as for the divider?  I allow to trim from both the top and bottom 1/8" to help ensure proper alignment and ends up square.  I'm not too anal making sure the top of the inside divider matches the top line of the front.   You can/should dampen the leather where the bottom fold will be to aid in alignment to the sides as you begin your sewing.  As I start my sewing, a lot of prayers help .The button?  In my Lyman design I strive to place a button in the top third of the front AND will not sew the button until I've completed the sewing, wet molding and more dye to make sure proper placement.  I will, and do, provide the button hole in the flap prior to sewing and dyeing.


 


 

[Brokennock]

Thank you G. Elsenbeck.
What do you insert in the bag to wet mold? That bag came out very nice. Also, if you were to unfold your template, is the no allowance at the bottom fold for the thickness of the  leather?

I will try to take a picture or too later and explain what I mean and had in mind. Also a better pic of the button hole and what i cut it with. Just home from nightshift, a nap comes first.

Thanks all.

[Marcruger]

I will add this. When I made a pattern, I usually cut the leather on the front panel to pattern. I then leave the back panel about 1/8” to 1/4” larger than the front. The same for a divider or welt. Once sewn, I then cut them all to the same size and finish the edge.

I always leave the flap or hinge area well oversized. Once I see how everything folds, and where my button falls, then I cut the flap. The buttonhole is one of my last steps.  I also wait to see how wide an inside out bag is before making a flap. 

My advice is to leave things “loose” and oversized until you need to progress to the next step.  I am sure pros can tied things down from the start, but I have developed work-arounds to minimize my failures.

I hope this helps.  God bless, Marc

[Marcruger]

This "trifold" Lyman was done by the method I just listed.  Front panel exact, back panel a little bigger, flap a lot bigger.  Cut to final size after sewing. 

The bag below was done the same way. 

I hope this helps!   God Bless,  Marc

[Bob McBride]

What do you insert in the bag to wet mold?

I’m not sure what Gary uses but if I get one not wet molded I put some #5 shot in a thick plastic bullet bag. Easy to shape how you want. I’m sure there’s a better way.

[G. Elsenbeck]

Thank you G. Elsenbeck.
What do you insert in the bag to wet mold? That bag came out very nice. Also, if you were to unfold your template, is the no allowance at the bottom fold for the thickness of the  leather?

After soaking the pouch I normally just use some plastic bags from the grocery until I get the look I want and set aside to dry.  This may take more than a day though and I wait until completely dry before I continuing the dye process.  I'm beginning to pre-dye the pieces before sewing and soaking to 'approach' the color I want after wet molding.  Not right, not wrong, just the way I do to get the color I OR the customer wants.  Hope this helps.

[Brokennock]

Thank you gentlemen. I appreciate your time and responses.
Marc, I have thought of leaving certain parts oversize until the end or when absolutely needed to be cut down, and I've done it with bag flaps before. The frustrating thing here is the test model in cardboard worked so well, and,,,,, I knew better than to not account for full bag volume.
I'm blaming it on Corona brain as I started this while still sick. Lol.

[John SMOthermon]

Thank you G. Elsenbeck.
What do you insert in the bag to wet mold? That bag came out very nice. Also, if you were to unfold your template, is the no allowance at the bottom fold for the thickness of the  leather?

I will try to take a picture or too later and explain what I mean and had in mind. Also a better pic of the button hole and what i cut it with. Just home from nightshift, a nap comes first.

Thanks all.

BN, if you’re referring too the very bottom fold, on thicker pieces I have skived a line  inside of the bottom seam.
This relieves some of the pressure and lets the pouch close more at the bottom.