Double rifle and gun makers?

[Randy Hedden]

TOF.....I was going to respond to some of your last comments, but, I refuse to converse with anyone any longer who
refuses to use his name. .......Don

Don,

Give it up, not talking to anyone who doesn't give their name is useless as probably more than 90% of the members only give a pseudonym.  

Don Stith and I did that for about two years and it didn't change a thing.

 If you really think about it, many of the guys you have known for years use a pseudonym on this message board.

Randy Hedden

[jmforge]

If you take a pair of straight octagon rifle barrels that are bored on center and the flats are planed on center, then they should shoot parallel when mated.

TOF,
If you solder both barrels parallel they should shoot apart because of the horizontal component of recoil. Barrels are soldered with convergence.
John Pondoro Taylor made a good explanation on his book "African Rifles and cartridges".

Martin

Now this may be an urban myth or worse, but I thought that I heard that if you do that with an over/under setup, that is true, but side by sides have some strange barrel harmonics that make life a bit tougher and that is why the O/U is more common these days.  I know that with modern guns, you can use a monoblock breech for an O/U which helps a lot because you just drill the holes in the breechblock straight and true and then install the barrels, but with a side by side, you have to join the two barrels which is at least a two piece setup if not a 3 piece one, unless you want a gun that handles like a cinder block.  The only thing that I can figure is that in an O/U, the two barrels are "free floated" and not touching each other (center ribs being purely decorative and left off of some target guns) so they may not effect each other as much, but in a S/S, they are attached, so you have to deal not only with the physical effects/properties of the barrel that you are firing, but also with its neighbor.  What I do know is that if you compare "apples to apples" like comparing a Ruger Red Label and Gold Label, which are built in a very similar fashion, the S/S still costs twice as much.

[Don Getz]

TOF.....thanks, I've wiped the egg off.....did not notice the name entwined in that, whatever.  No harm done here.  I think
the end result of "regulating" a set of barrel is kind of kind of ridiculous.   Whichever method is used, we are still talking
about shooting those big calibre elephant guns, and one fellow said, "I shot a minute of grapefruit" at 50 yards.   Either
method, the bores are at most an inch apart, unfortunately, they don't remain that close, or rarely do, after they reach that 50 yard point, and the left barrel won't always shoot on the left side, nor the right one on the right side.  I read in a
Gun Digest from 1977,  there is an article on "John Wilkes", a british gun maker of good double rifles.  The article was by
a "Jerry Evans".  In talking about his double by John Wilkes, he made the statement.."the gun was beautifully made and the barrel regulation was perfect.  It shot a 6 shot group slightly under three inches at 100 yards, alternate lefts and rights".    I don't know how he regulated this gun, but I guess he did it right...............Don

[Naphtali]

TOF.....I was going to respond to some of your last comments, but, I refuse to converse with anyone any longer who
refuses to use his name. .......Don

I hope you are not including me in your "don't respond to" list. I use the same moniker on all forums on which I participate. And "Naphtali" is my first name -- Hebrew brit -- as in Naphtali Yonah. What is more important than being able to read names, I suspect, is avoiding niggardly personality conflict that supersedes working the query. . . . I probably could have jammed in more five-dollar words, but enough already. I enjoy using "niggardly" rather than stingy, penny-pinching, ungenerous, or other because it offends social liberal sensibilities -- they have no clue what the word means, just what it sounds like.

[Don Getz]

Naphtoli.....I must admit, that is a different name, never heard it before.   I'm going to jump all the way back to your first
question......who can make you a double rifle?   I wish I could help you here but just off-hand, I don't know of anyone
who could, or would, do it.    If you do find someone, it will probably be expensive.    Why not settle for a real neat "barn"
gun?................Don

[Dphariss]

TOF.....thanks, I've wiped the egg off.....did not notice the name entwined in that, whatever.  No harm done here.  I think
the end result of "regulating" a set of barrel is kind of kind of ridiculous.   Whichever method is used, we are still talking
about shooting those big calibre elephant guns, and one fellow said, "I shot a minute of grapefruit" at 50 yards.   Either
method, the bores are at most an inch apart, unfortunately, they don't remain that close, or rarely do, after they reach that 50 yard point, and the left barrel won't always shoot on the left side, nor the right one on the right side.  I read in a
Gun Digest from 1977,  there is an article on "John Wilkes", a british gun maker of good double rifles.  The article was by
a "Jerry Evans".  In talking about his double by John Wilkes, he made the statement.."the gun was beautifully made and the barrel regulation was perfect.  It shot a 6 shot group slightly under three inches at 100 yards, alternate lefts and rights".    I don't know how he regulated this gun, but I guess he did it right...............Don

Doubles were, and still are, made in all calibers. 303, 35 WCF etc etc. I seem to recall one made in 22 High Power, a cartridge by Savage that shot fairly heavy bullets for its bore size.
But remember they are game guns not target guns and 3" at 100 will kill about any animal much bigger than a rabbit every shot at 100 and larger animals to 300 or so.
Yes lots of heavy (an other) game in Africa is killed at ranges that can measured by 2 digits in *feet*. In some areas 20 yards is a long shot. But a good double is plently accurate for its purpose which is general big game hunting. While pinpoint accuracy is nice its not really needed for big game hunting. 8" group at 300 will kill elk very reliably. I hunt in MT and even with using something with "more range" I seldom shoot over 250-300 yards and have killed antelope at 30 or less with a flintlock.
Building a ML double with one set of sights is not impossible though it takes some thought to get the barrels close together on the target. With RB guns if the rifle shoots as well as your 3" group at 100 it will do fine for hunting.
Doubles are generally not the best target rifle since they 2 barrels tend to heat and expand strangely and this can effect accuracy. But if within a few feet of something big and dangerous in thick brush the double with its short length and two very fast shots is really the best choice. If the hunter can afford it.
There are all grades of double rifles and the lower grade guns were often are poorly regulated. The bullets cross at 40-50 yards or strike too far apart. But how these may perform has little to do with how a well regulated double shoots.
Bed time
Dan

[northmn]

A comment was made about O/U and their shooting characteristics.  In shotguns the O/U is popular mostly because it has the single sighting plane and a straight back recoil. I gather regulation is also easier.  SS have been made with raised ribs to give the sighting plane issue but still have that angular recoil. You do not see SS in the hands of top competitors anymore, or very rarely.  I have seen a few pictures of modern O/U in rifles.  Never worried too much about it as I need a few other essentials before buying a double rifle.

DP