Hard Trigger pull correction

[rmnc3r]

Davis Large Double Set Trigger and a Chambers Deluxe Siler are all inlet, but I find the front trigger pull to be a bit too hard; the placement of the trigger has to be just right for a decent front trigger pull and I missed it by a smidge - the rearmost of the front trigger bar is contacting the sear bar, which makes for a less than optimal fulcrum.

Beside changing the inletting of the trigger plate,  Which is the better option to lighten the pull?:

1. Heat and bend the sear arm down and forward some (keeping in mind the rear set trigger still needs to work)

2. (Hard? Soft??) Solder a bit of metal to the Front Trigger Blade? - Taller in the front of the blade, sloping down towards the rear
(would make use a brass heat sink to protect the hardened contact point from softening).

3. Other

[EC121]

Plug the tang screw hole and move the triggers back a little.  The triggerguard will cover the patch.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I'm missing something, I think.  With a double set, double acting set trigger(s), I use the front trigger to fire the set triggers, not to fire the lock.  The triggers do that work for you.  Upon occasion, I use the front trigger to let the hammer (cock) down without firing the rifle, but that's rare, and I don't care if a lot of force is required to release the sear from the half or full cock notch.  With double set triggers, the geometry of the front trigger is not conducive to a nice light crisp let off, no matter how it is inlet.  The front trigger is pinned way too low for optimal mechanical advantage.
The whole purpose of a set trigger is to get around that problem...let the trigger's mainspring do the work.

[rmnc3r]

I'm missing something, I think.  With a double set, double acting set trigger(s), I use the front trigger to fire the set triggers, not to fire the lock.  The triggers do that work for you.  Upon occasion, I use the front trigger to let the hammer (cock) down without firing the rifle, but that's rare, and I don't care if a lot of force is required to release the sear from the half or full cock notch.  With double set triggers, the geometry of the front trigger is not conducive to a nice light crisp let off, no matter how it is inlet.  The front trigger is pinned way too low for optimal mechanical advantage.
The whole purpose of a set trigger is to get around that problem...let the trigger's mainspring do the work.

I was taught the front trigger was to be considered for use as a 'Hunting Trigger' - too hard a pull for target work, but hard enough for hunting to minimize an inadvertent let off.  As such, I generally inlet to achieve a 4-5 lb pull. Most times, I succeed. This project seems to be 7+ lbs
(haven't put a pull gauge on it yet).

Plug the tang screw hole and move the triggers back a little.  The triggerguard will cover the patch.

I'd have to inlet deeper as well as move it back - that may place the rear set trigger blade too far back and miss the sear bar

[jerrywh]

I'm with Taylor on this one .I don't get it.

[David Rase]

A lot of times the problem with the front trigger pulling too hard is due to too much space between the front trigger blade and the sear.  This causes opposing angles between the attack angle of the trigger blade to the sear bar. To remedy this problem I have had to add a spacer to the front trigger blade to minimize the amount of travel of the front trigger. 
 

[Scota4570]

If you have a gorilla strength sear spring that can cause a hard pull.  IT will also and chew up the sear nose on the fly.  I have also received locks with the sear spring end to far from the sear pivot, the spring is too short, which also makes the pull excessive.  Most of the time I make a new sear spring.  The rest of the time I trim it down to weaken it. 

Another issue is the full cock notch angle.  IF the cock is being camed back when the trigger is pulled that will cause the pull to be excessive. The tiniest amount of cam back is all that is desirable.  I usually make mine with no cam back.  It is also important  that the sear nose have a flat that matches the sear notch.  A knife edge is bad. 

[J. Talbert]

I'm missing something, I think.  With a double set, double acting set trigger(s), I use the front trigger to fire the set triggers, not to fire the lock.  The triggers do that work for you.  Upon occasion, I use the front trigger to let the hammer (cock) down without firing the rifle, but that's rare, and I don't care if a lot of force is required to release the sear from the half or full cock notch.  With double set triggers, the geometry of the front trigger is not conducive to a nice light crisp let off, no matter how it is inlet.  The front trigger is pinned way too low for optimal mechanical advantage.
The whole purpose of a set trigger is to get around that problem...let the trigger's mainspring do the work.

Ditto
Jeff

[rmnc3r]

A lot of times the problem with the front trigger pulling too hard is due to too much space between the front trigger blade and the sear.  This causes opposing angles between the attack angle of the trigger blade to the sear bar. To remedy this problem I have had to add a spacer to the front trigger blade to minimize the amount of travel of the front trigger. 
 

Yes David - this was one of the options being considered.  Will common soft solder be sufficient to hold the extra metal spacer?

I think I'll do this instead of messing with bending the sear bar. OR pirate a Trigger Casting from a kit and order extras to replace it and have some on hand

This Davis Trigger was already assembled, limiting my options. When I build one from a kit, the front trigger has the casting gate(?) that I can grind down for optimal trigger/sear geometry

[Bob Roller]

Plug the tang screw hole and move the triggers back a little.  The triggerguard will cover the patch.

On my set triggers I have tried to make the front trigger usable but sometimes
the lock is the problem with the sear being too high at full cock.Also,that picture
shows a poorly deigned trigger,The front trigger spring is too close to the trigger bar.

Bob Roller

[Stophel]

Taylor is right, front set triggers are generally pinned WAY too low to really operate the sear very well.  The trigger bar ends up swinging FORWARD, ramming into the rear end of the sear, rather than lifting it up.  Years ago, I made a different front trigger that was very tall, and had a high slope on it, shaped much the same way I would shape a single trigger...  even taller with more slope, actually.  This changed the "angle of attack" to the sear, so it wasn't ramming hard into the end of it.  It did make for a very looooong trigger pull, as the trigger slid forward under the sear, but at least it was fairly smooth, and much lighter than the 34 pounds required to pull the original front trigger....   

[alacran]

Davis makes a trigger for Jim Chambers that accomplishes What David Rases photo shows. You may be able to just buy the front trigger itself from Davis.
I have a Walter Cain trigger on my Hawken, and the front trigger drops the hammer with a 3lb. pull.  I have only used it once in a hunting situation.
I agree with Taylor assessment of what the front trigger is for in most cases.
If you are concerned with having too light a trigger pull for hunting, just back out the adjustment screw to what you feel would be appropriate for you.

[Jim Kibler]

There are many factors that effect the final trigger pull.  Many have been mentioned.  With a good lock that is designed and constructed properly and a good trigger you can get a 3 pound pull on the front trigger.  Even with the inherent poor geometry of a set trigger.  You may be lucky and buy a lock with a nice sear let-off and a trigger that works well with it, but in reality, work will need to be done on the vast majority of what is available to acheive this.  In order to do work, you need to understand the entire lock mechanics, get this right (which very few locks have starting out with) and then get the trigger right as well.  Not many have the understanding or ability to acheive this.

[Daryl]

When shooting 'weak-handed' targets, I oft times only pull on the front trigger to discharge the rifle having double-set, double-throw triggers.
I can see the point of having a decent pull on just the front trigger & David's idea of raising the front trigger's surface is likely the only way o do it.
The other way is to stiffen up the "set" weight for safer hunting triggers and use the triggers as set triggers.

[smylee grouch]

Are there now or in the past double set triggers with the front trigger pin a little higher to help with that single trigger pull weight?

[Bsharp]

Not sure if it will work on this lock, but they use to use a bushing over the sear for a hunting trigger.

The bushing acts like lengthening the trigger blade.

[A.Merrill]

  Jim Kibler said it perfectly.  When i first learned gun building back in 1974 the front trigger was known as the hunting trigger.  Using set triggers was for target shoot and small game head shots.   Al

[RAT]

Are there set triggers with the front trigger pinned higher? Yes. I don't have a picture handy, but some original trigger designs have a taller center portion that extends basically to the top of the trigger bars. You will see that the front pin goes through this upper portion rather than through the thicker, lower, part of the plate. I believe there was a photo here of a Gillespie trigger that shows this. There was also a reproduction of a Jacob Young or Thomas Simpson (I forget which) rifle that was the focus of a Muzzle Blasts article about a year ago.

[Jim Kibler]

The pivot point of a set trigger should be directly below the notches.  With this being the case there is a limit to how high the pin can go, regardless of how high the ears on the trigger plate extend upwards. 

[flehto]

Seeing my hunting guns are used  only for  hunting, I don't install DSTs ,...in fact I don't like DSTs....they're a complication I don't want to deal w/.

But if a MLer I'm building requires one, then I block out the rear trigger and tune the front trigger to a 3lb pull....could go less, but 3 lbs works well .The block plate  can be removed  and then the DSTs can be used.

Awhile back went elk hunting in CO  and our camp was at 10,200 ft elevation  and my Hawken had the rear trigger blocked and a month before the hunt, asked my buddy if he wanted his rear trigger blocked and a 3 lb pull on his front trigger installed. He said no.

Well, he was climbing a steep slope and halfway up saw a 6x6 bull so pulled the rear trigger back and was bringing the rifle up and touched the front trigger and it fired....missing the elk. To his amazement, the bull just stood there so he reloaded and repeated the cocking of the rear trigger and again prematurely  touched the front trigger and missed the elk which then took off. He attributes the "screw up" to heavy breathing and excitement.

Needles to say when home, he asked me to block the rear trigger, etc. and 2 yrs later got a nice bull.


If DSTs are preferred by some, so be it seeing they are probably better for target shooting....FRed

 

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Certainly "each to his own" but I personally would not be happy without a hairy set trigger, especially for hunting.

[Acer Saccharum]

Hairy man like hairy trigger.

[alacran]

I see no reason to block the rear trigger. Almost all the big game animals I have shot never had a clue I was there. If I am taking a 120 yard shot at a deer, it becomes a target shot.  The initial burst of adrenaline has subsided by the time I calculate what it is that I am going to do. I would never take a hurried long range shot with a ML.
If you are planning to use the creepy, crappy front trigger of a DST without setting it, you better practice with it a lot.

[Marcruger]

I have always viewed the front trigger on a double-lever as a way to lower the cock.  I also use it when setting my flints square to the frizzen face.  Otherwise, I practice trigger control and use the triggers set. 

Perhaps the issue is that some have troubles switching between using standard triggers and set triggers.  I am blessed that I haven't had an issue there, but I understand that some do. 

God Bless,   Marc

[WadePatton]

Certainly "each to his own" but I personally would not be happy without a hairy set trigger, especially for hunting.

This is my way too.  I spent too much time tickling target triggers to ever want 3# hunting trigger again. Trigger control has never been a problem with any DST I've used. 

The "creepy crappiness" of unset front triggers that alacran mentions literally turns my stomach-a little.