hardening and tempering siler lock parts

[martin9]

I'll be hardening and tempering my old Siler kit lock parts today. I've got the lock functioning nicely and have put this off long enough. I have the instructions with the tempering times. My main question is since this is an old kit has anyone since found a slightly different/better way to produce the desired results? Also, will it be alright to temper the higher temp parts in my lyman casting pot?...it has a thermostat

Thanks, Wes

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Not all of the guts of a lock get the same tempering temperature.  What parts specifically are you heat treating?

[deepcreekdale]

I use my lead casting pot for all my tempering, especially with springs  but always use a thermometer to make sure the temperature is accurate. You can use a kitchen oven as the instructions say for the internal parts, I have in the past with excellent results but again, verify the temperature with  a thermometer, Kitchen ovens can vary widely from what the dial says. Taylor is right, the parts have different recommended tempering times/temperatures. Being an old married man, I always follow directions. Just to throw something else out there, Rifle Shoppe locks use the same steel in their castings and their instructions are completely different. I have used their instructions which are on their website on their lock castings with excellent results. They recommend case hardening most of the internals after a high polish. You might want to just take a look to see if that might be more doable for you

[martin9]

I was planning on tempering the frizzen in the kitchen oven. The tumbler fly and sear I was thinking about tempering in the casting pot as the temperature goes to 590 for the sear. 500 for the tumbler and fly. I know lead doesn't melt til above 600 so thought I'd set my thermostat on 500  and just keep checking it with a thermometer to see how well it can hold that temp.

[martin9]

Thanks! I'll check out the rifle shoppe page. I was all set to just go by the instructions but started searching about hardening and tempering here and it made me a little gun shy about the whole thing.   

[martin9]

I like the case hardening idea, I called MBS and added some cherry red to an existing order. They don't mention tempering the case hardened parts though in their instructions. They only tell how to temper springs. After case hardening will I temper per the siler instructions?
Thanks, Wes 

[Stophel]

I just do it all with a propane torch.   

[bama]

Jim Chambers can tell you what the parts need to be treated to.

[Jim Chambers]

Siler lock kits have been assembled and heat treated by us and many other assemblers using the instructions Bud Siler wrote over 50 years ago.  They work.  If you chose to use instructions by other "experts"  and the parts break, we'll be glad to sell you replacements.  Can you explain why you need to case harden parts that are already made from high carbon steel?

[deepcreekdale]

Siler lock kits have been assembled and heat treated by us and many other assemblers using the instructions Bud Siler wrote over 50 years ago.  They work.  If you chose to use instructions by other "experts"  and the parts break, we'll be glad to sell you replacements.  Can you explain why you need to case harden parts that are already made from high carbon steel?
Jim I fully agree the instructions that you include work fanstastic, I have never had a problem using them to assemble your kits. Since the OP was asking for peoples opinions on how to finish his kit, I was just trying to let him think about options.  However, I have tried the instructions included by the Rifle Shoppe and do find you do get better spark from the frizzen by using Kasenit.
Their thinking seems to be, and I have tried it and found it to also work well is to bring all the parts to a high polish, then buff, then case harden, then repolish and buff. It works especially well for their lock castings which do not have internal bridles, or frizzen bridles. Those parts seem to be more susceptible to wear than in locks with more support and their technique does seem to improve function in that sort of lock.
on another slightly different note, I know you provide your springs hardened and tempered, TRS provides the raw castings for which they also provide excellent instructions although I do use the lead bath/thermometer technique in lieu of the burning oil method which has always struck me as a hit or miss afair (What kind of oil, how much, how long does it burn etc seems to be missing from most instructions) Interestingly, they recommend a  water hardening and not oil, I have done many that way and every spring has turned out perfectly.
My opinion would be, anyone building one of your excellent kits, follow your instructions and leave the experimentation to when you have several under your belt. But, it is interesting and valuable to think about alternative techniques.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Jim:  is the tumbler bridle made of high carbon steel?  I find them easy to file so whatever heat treating they've had, it is minor.  I like the bridle to have a pretty hard surface.  And the lock's screws benefit from case hardening too, except for the top jaw screw...made that mistake already.  Anything that I've learned over these past 55 years of building muzzle loaders, up to the time of this forum, has been learned by trial and error.  Up here in the Great White North, there is no one else building ml's...no mentors.

[martin9]

I read that also while searching for ways to do it so I just went per the instructions. I just did all the hardening/tempering yesterday. Came out great far as I can tell. I guess the proof will be if it's still sparking 20 years from now. I did order some cherry red case hardening compound and looking am forward to playing with that for screws and whatnot.
Thanks, Wes