Patchbox latch questions

[coopersdad]

Hey everyone!  I spent all afternoon filing out this double-rivet patchbox latch, and when I riveted it to the lid I had a very hard time with one of them - the angle was such it was very hard to hold and get solid hits.   Anyway, I thought it was riveted well , but when I filed it out, it wasn't.  Think I left too much and it mushroomed over and didn't fill.





So I get to carefully remove it and make another one.  The filing was very fiddly and took a long time - I cut the two posts on the top square, then filed octagon, then round.  There's not much room in between so it's real hard to get files in there, then cleaning up the base so it sits flush was tedious.   

I guessed that  was how the 18th century guy would have done it.  I considered using the drill press and drilling two holes and soldering in two bits of 1/16" rod, but that "feels" like modern thinking.   

Is it necessary to even file the posts round? If left octagon or even square, wouldn't the rivet still fill the countersink?  How would the 18th century smith have approached this? 

[Mike Lyons]

I’ve never messed with a double post but on a single, I cut it and the hole square so that it doesn’t rotate.  Then countersink the square hole and flush everything up with a ball peen hammer and file.  Everything I’ve learned has been from ALR so,  I can’t take credit for the way I do it. 

[flinchrocket]

Personally, I would rivet the catch to the lid before I cut out for the latch. That way it would be solid to peen against.

[rich pierce]

(For sure I agree with flinchrocket)

It’s tricky business peening steel and riveting it into a brass lid, so don’t feel bad. A slight countersink and correctly leaving just enough of the posts above the lid seems to be the trick. Do not leave too much material above the lid. I always use a small round nosed punch to do the riveting. Get the post in the vise with the lid really snugged down. Then punch the center of each rivet first then treat it like lug nuts on a wheel change. Tiny punches one side then the other. That keeps the rivet filling in the countersink nicely. Finish with a flat faced punch just smaller than the rivet diameter to finish evening out the fit to the countersink.

Probably all of this seems more complicated than necessary but really it’s tap,tap, tippety tap and done.

[coopersdad]

 I was worried about tweaking the lid when holding the thing to file it, so I was trying to do most of the filing before riveting. That caused the issue.  It will be nice and square for version 2! 

I was trying to hold it on the anvil while peening it, and realized a punch would help direct the blows, but don't have three hands.  I'll try it in the vise, thanks!

I always struggle with how much post to leave when riveting.  I always leave too much and end up peening, then filing some off and peening again.  I guess that's better than cutting it too short right away. 

[rich pierce]

When the post is too tall before peening it can make a head without filling the countersink. For me at least.

[flehto]

Have never had a catch post loosen after peening in a round hole. A longer than needed post w/o the latch recess is held tightly in the vise and the rivet head is  formed. I use a medium sized ballpeen hammer and the post that gets riveted is struck mainly in the center of its dia........Fred

[Craig Wilcox]

You can also make a small drill hole in the end of the rivet, then punch it with a center punch that has been ground to a fat point.  That will set the rivet, then just use a small ballpein to finish the head.

[TommyG]

I do the same as Fred.  Make the latch oversize in length and grab the waste end in the vise, peen the rivet, then cut to length.   One other thing I do is file flats on 2 sides of the latch, the sides facing the hinge and buttplate.  This aides in clearance as the lid/latch pivots in and out of the wood on the stock, it also gives you a better bite when holding in your vise for peening the latch.

[Not English]

I agree with Mike. That's all I've ever done or needed. The post won't rotate and the latch notches can be filed in where needed. I don't see the need for double posts, although I'm sure some one will point it out. I think if I was doing double posts, I would just solder it on, but that raises the question of why the posts if your soldering it on.

Dave

[coopersdad]

Got some shop time finally today and replaced the latch.  Thanks Rich and Flintrocket and all!  I kept the latch square, but peened it by holding in the vise jaws instead of the anvil.    Keeping it square helped there, too, as I experimented with the old latch and hitting on the end with the curve caused it to tilt.  The rounded punch helped tremendously to direct the blows where needed.  The rivets filled well. 
It could still be held in the vise to file the rounded part and the notch.   






After some fitting, the box goes "Tink!" 

Dave, I'm doing a Bonewitz rifle, and he and other Berks smiths used that double post, so I wanted to keep it "correct".  It does seem like overkill, and definitely more work than a single post (although I've never done one of those either) but maybe it was a selling point - our box latches will never rotate on you!

[flinchrocket]

Maybe that double post aren't any stronger,but they look twice as cool. nice job.

[Chowmi]

Nice work Mike! 

I'm taking notes for when I finally build my Bonewitz!

Norm

[coopersdad]

Thanks Norm!  First brass box, lots of learning on this one. 

[Not English]

Mike,

That's a nice looking patchbox. I'm glad it worked out for you. Like I said, someone will prove you wrong every time you express an opinion. That's what's interesting about North American colonial gun making.

Dave

[Mike Lyons]

Looks great.  That’s a fine job at inletting too.  It’s great that you’re following original design. Looking forward to the finished rifle.   

[Jerry V Lape]

I thought I was the only odd ball building a Bonewitz/Reedy rifle.  I choose the identical patchbox and finished up the latch mechanism today.  Your work looks really crisp. 

[T*O*F]

I thought I was the only odd ball building a Bonewitz/Reedy rifle.

I used one's box with the other's side panels on mine.  Haven't gotten around to doing the latch yet.

 

[J. Talbert]

Mike,
That PB looks like a good start to dandy rifle.  Nice job on the hinge.  Look forward to seeing the finished project.

Jeff

[coopersdad]

Thanks!  I learned how to make it from folks posting here how they did it - ALR is essential!!