Author Topic: S. Miller Berks county (upper susquehanna) build  (Read 3670 times)

Offline Chowmi

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S. Miller Berks county (upper susquehanna) build
« on: May 26, 2020, 03:13:21 AM »
Hello all,
I'm starting a build based on the work of S. Miller, who worked around Hamburg, PA in the first and second quarter of the 19th century.  There are a few examples in the library, as well as one in Patrick Hornberger's "Berks County Longrifles and Gunmakers", on page 65.

I'm building it for a friend, and in return he will build me a new workbench from the plans that were raffled off a while ago here on the forum. 

Should be a real nice to handle, skinny skinny .40 Cal rifle with a 43 inch or so straight tapered barrel.

He is a lefty, and I can't find a left handed Late Ketland (Hint Hint, Jim Kibler.....), so I will use either the L&R Durrs Egg, or the Bailes.  I have both, haven't decided yet. 
I should receive the barrel from Ed Rayl shortly, and I have a nice piece of curly maple from Allen Martin that I will send off to David Rase to inlet for me. 

Meanwhile, I have started on some of the hardware while I wait. 

I struggled to find both a butt plate and trigger guard that were already shaped correctly.  They might exist, but the only place I could find full size drawings was the TOTW catalog.  Anything else was going to be a process of ordering a few candidates and then returning the unused ones. 

The best butt plate candidate I could find was an Armstrong, BP-ARM-1-B from TOTW.  The max width is correct and the return is of the right width and profile, just too long. It also has a spur off the back, like some Ohio rifles. 

Here's what I'm going for:





The Armstrong buttplate has a hollow in it leading into the spur, so I had to be careful cutting it off and filing it to round.  This pic shows the spur, and a sharpie marker dot where calipers showed me the end of the hollow:





I cut the spur off with a hacksaw, and then checked the thickness of the brass remaining with calipers. 





I continued to file away, and check that there was enough meat left there, then ended up with a rounded top to the buttplate like I wanted. 
Next was to round off the sides of the top of the plate and cut the butt plate return to the right length, which left me with just about the right length of round section after the flats.






I trimmed the length of the plate to just over what I think it should end up as.  Since I don't have the plank shaped yet, I left a fair amount of length on the toe.  Once I have the plank shaped in profile, I will cut the toe of the plate to fit right.  I also drew a rough hack on the profile and skinnied it up a bit.  Once the stock is profiled, then I will shorten the toe and trim it to the correct width.  The butt plate is the right width at the widest point, and at the rear of the butt plate return, so once the toe is shortened, I will trim the edges to the right profile.






After that, here is the butt plate as it sits now. 

Close enough for now. 

The trigger guard is also from TOTW, but sand cast and very thick.  The profile from the side is nearly exact, but I probably need to remove 1/4 to 1/3 of the weight in brass.

Here's a sample from the library of what I am going for:






I failed to take pictures of the process.  I'm working front to back, and you can see the sand cast part at the back.  I trimmed the front and rear finial to the correct length and then started reshaping the front finial, and the trigger bow.  I nearly overdid it with the grinder, but I think I've not cut too much.  The post leading to the trigger bow needed to be reduced by at least 30-40% and reshaped.  Working on that now. 

Here's the progress so far, and it seems to be working. Its rough, but the shapes are working.   The transition from the front finial to the bow will be angle filed like the finial and the bow, on a curve, like the picture from the library.





That's all for now,

cheers,
Norm
Cheers,
Chowmi

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Online rich pierce

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Re: S. Miller Berks county (upper susquehanna) build
« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2020, 03:43:47 AM »
Fun project. I always enjoy fabricating parts for custom builds.
Andover, Vermont

Offline Curtis

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Re: S. Miller Berks county (upper susquehanna) build
« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2020, 07:09:57 AM »
You are off to a great start Norm!  Looking good so far.  Perhaps Mike Brooks will see this and chime in if he has any castings that would work for this Miller rifle, I would order a set from him if he does.  (Hint hint Mike). 

I got to handle the original rifle once upon a time and it is truly a wonderfully slender gun.

Curtis

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Sometimes, late at night when I am alone in the inner sanctum of my workshop and no one else can see, I sand things using only my fingers for backing

Offline Chowmi

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Re: S. Miller Berks county (upper susquehanna) build
« Reply #3 on: May 26, 2020, 07:14:20 AM »
You are off to a great start Norm!  Looking good so far.  Perhaps Mike Brooks will see this and chime in if he has any castings that would work for this Miller rifle, I would order a set from him if he does.  (Hint hint Mike). 
Curtis

I second that!  Hint Hint Mike! 

I thought about that, but really wanted to see full size pictures.  Maybe Mike has full size pictures?  Frankly, I forgot to ask! 
If I could have gone to Dixon's, probably could have found a better TG candidate there. 

Norm
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Chowmi

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Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: S. Miller Berks county (upper susquehanna) build
« Reply #4 on: May 26, 2020, 02:30:10 PM »
I'll dig around today. I'm pretty sure I have a guard that will work. But, what you are modifying looks like it is going to work real well?
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Offline alacran

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Re: S. Miller Berks county (upper susquehanna) build
« Reply #5 on: May 26, 2020, 03:14:02 PM »
I think you are off to a very good start. My suggestion on the lock is to go with the Durrs Egg. I like both locks very much, The Egg is bigger than the Bailes. The Bailes might give you a skimmer profile, but the Egg will add more weight at the breech to help balance the rifle. That is a trade off. However the biggest reason to use the Egg is that it uses 3/4 inch flints. I find that 5/8 flints can be a bit on the fragile side.
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Offline JTR

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Re: S. Miller Berks county (upper susquehanna) build
« Reply #6 on: May 26, 2020, 06:38:09 PM »
Chowmi, I can't help you on the parts, but I do have an original S Miller that I'd be happy to measure for any dimensions you might need.
It was a flint that's been percussioned and about 6 inches of barrel muzzle lopped off, so can't help in those areas. But the rest is typical Miller.
John 
John Robbins

Offline Chowmi

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Re: S. Miller Berks county (upper susquehanna) build
« Reply #7 on: May 26, 2020, 07:10:37 PM »
Chowmi, I can't help you on the parts, but I do have an original S Miller that I'd be happy to measure for any dimensions you might need.
It was a flint that's been percussioned and about 6 inches of barrel muzzle lopped off, so can't help in those areas. But the rest is typical Miller.
John

John,
Thank you, PM about to be sent! 

Norm
Cheers,
Chowmi

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Offline Craig Wilcox

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Re: S. Miller Berks county (upper susquehanna) build
« Reply #8 on: May 27, 2020, 06:20:27 AM »
Really nice work on modifying that butt plate - you made it appear as though it had been made that way.

I second the vote for the Durs Egg lock.  It looks good and has that bit of added weight that may help with balance.

When you mentioned that your friend is a leftie, I wondered if you told Rayl about that.  You see, lefties require that the rifling be done LEFT, not RIGHT.

Going to be a real nice rifle when you are done, and we do thank you for sharing the build process.
Craig Wilcox
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Offline mountainman

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Re: S. Miller Berks county (upper susquehanna) build
« Reply #9 on: May 27, 2020, 06:45:08 AM »
Interesting! I wonder what the S stands for in S. Miller?

Offline Chowmi

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Re: S. Miller Berks county (upper susquehanna) build
« Reply #10 on: May 27, 2020, 07:37:39 AM »
Interesting! I wonder what the S stands for in S. Miller?

I have seen references to both Simon and Samuel.  I have also seen a very wide range of dates for his gunsmithing activity.  I've tried to find more through genealogical records, but came up with nothing so far. 

Maybe someone here has more information.

Here is what I have:
Patrick Hornberger names him Simon on page 65 of his book "Berks Co. Longrifles and Gunmakers", and gives a date of Circa 1830 for the gun shown.

In Kauffman's book "The Pennsylvania-Kentucky Longrifle" he has a picture of an S. Miller gun on page 56 and calls him S. Miller, working into the 1840's.  On page 303 he has another S Miller gun and above lists Samuel Miller (not Simon) on the tax records in Swatara Township, Lebanon Co, in 1823, 1829, 1838, 1842, 44, 46, 49. 

Just to add more confusion, the earmi website database of American gunmakers has the following entry:

MILLER, Simon— Hamburg, Pa., about 1770-1820. Master riflesmith; long silver-inlaid flintlock Kentucky rifles with incised carving. Possibly same as "S. M.' maker of a pair of flintlock Kentucky pistols carried by Col. Nathan Dennison at Battle of Wyoming, Pa., July 3, 1778.

I'm sure there is more out there, I just haven't found it.

Cheers,
Norm
Cheers,
Chowmi

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Offline mountainman

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Re: S. Miller Berks county (upper susquehanna) build
« Reply #11 on: May 27, 2020, 06:17:25 PM »
Thanks for the information I greatly appreciate it!

Offline Chowmi

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Re: S. Miller Berks county (upper susquehanna) build
« Reply #12 on: June 12, 2020, 09:53:52 PM »
I've finally got a bit more work done, albeit slowly.  Just too busy with other stuff. 
My barrel is on it's way to David Rase for inletting, so I am still working on the triggerguard and lock.
The trigger guard was more bent and twisted than I realized, and so some of my shaping is a bit out of whack.  I think I can fix it, but have put it aside for a while so I don't get overly angry!
If it doesn't work, I'll bite the bullet and get another one.

Here it is so far:



Next up is the lock.  I had to find a left handed substitute for a Late Ketland, and have gone with the L&R Durs Egg lock.  The Durs Egg has some elements that are more fancy than I want, so I am modifying it to look closer to a Ketland.  I'm not worried about getting a perfect copy of the Ketland.  Can't do that with the way the pan is shaped without more work than I am willing to do anyway.  I just want something that looks a bit lower end, like a typical import they might have got in the first quarter of 19th century, or a shop made Ketland-ish type lock. 

First up was knocking the point off the tail of the lock plate, and then I started to work on the frizzen.  It has a long pronounced curl on the toe that needed to be shortened. 

You see it here:



I drew some marks and then carefully ran it on my grinder, being sure not to get it hot:



Here is the result of just grinding the tip off, next to an original Ketland lock that I got a few years ago.

I'm gonna post this now, our internet is abysmal and I don't want to lose the thread so far.  Update in a few minutes.

Norm


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Chowmi

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Offline Chowmi

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Re: S. Miller Berks county (upper susquehanna) build
« Reply #13 on: June 12, 2020, 10:01:26 PM »
Continued...
Next was to round out the toe of the frizzen.  The Durs Egg has a flat along the top.  The original lock you see the picture of does also, but the lock on the original Miller gun does not, (confused yet?) so I am rounding it out.  You can see partial progress here:





here it is, roughed out and close to final shape:



 and here it is compared to the Ketland I have.  If the frizzen weren't hardened, I would heat it up and curl the toe a little bit more, but I'm not gonna ruin the temper on the frizzen to do that.



Again, I'm simply trying to make this lock have less bling and look credible as an import or shop made lock.

Cheers,
Norm
Cheers,
Chowmi

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Offline Chowmi

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Re: S. Miller Berks county (upper susquehanna) build
« Reply #14 on: June 12, 2020, 10:10:20 PM »
Next thing to work is the cock.  There are a few things to do on it.  The flint jaw post is far too fancy.  I'll cut it down and file thinner and to a more simple shape.

Side by side of the L&R and an original Ketland:




Also,
the top jaw for the flint fits really great on the cock right now.  Unfortunately, there is a casting sprue off the back, which I think should go away.  If I do that, then the jaw will not fit nice and snug up against the rail.  I sure wish they didn't make it like that. 

You can see it fit to the cock here, with a good fit.  The extra jaw in the background is a Chamber's jaw off a germanic lock, and you can see the casting sprue on it more clearly so you see what I mean.



Anyway, turns out that the Chamber's top jaw will work perfect without the casting sprue, as you can see here:


You can see that the rear of the jaw lines up, with the casting sprue actually needing to come off to get a good fit.
I will replace the L&R top jaw with the Chamber's one and it should have a nice fit.
The added bonus here is that the jaws on the Durs Egg lock are a bit bigger than the Ketland on the original, so I will file the bottom jaw to match the dimensions of the Chamber's top jaw.

Too much work!  I sure wish someone made a Lefty Late Ketland!!  Jim and Jim???.....

That's all for now, thanks for looking and comments welcome,

Norm
Cheers,
Chowmi

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Offline Chowmi

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Re: S. Miller Berks county (upper susquehanna) build
« Reply #15 on: June 18, 2020, 12:24:21 AM »
I've continued to work the lock shape, and have it pretty much where I want it for now.  The plate and cock will get some engraving, much further down the line.

I took the "fancy" out of the top jaw post on the cock, and reduced it's width as well.

I drew some lines to and took it to the grinder:


The Ketland lock's posts seem to generally be fairly straight, and I couldn't quite replicate that without adding some metal in the curved portion.  So I left a bit of an oval there, but got the general look I was going for.
Still needs some filing to sharpen the lines, and then some polishing.  I'll stick with this for now and see later down the line how happy I am with it.


Next was to work the lock plate.  Here it is after filing smooth, with some lines to guide a half round indent:








I filed the half round, and then towards the tail, the lock plate steps down.  There will be engraving on either side of the half round indent, typical of two of the Late Ketlands I have seen. 

Here's the finished plate, and the plate, cock and frizzen.








It's been a fun exercise in filing, and a good way to improve my filing skills.  It's also been interesting to find a shape that you want, working from a pre-existing shape that is too large. 

Comments welcome,

Cheers,
Norm


« Last Edit: June 18, 2020, 12:29:15 AM by Chowmi »
Cheers,
Chowmi

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Offline Curtis

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Re: S. Miller Berks county (upper susquehanna) build
« Reply #16 on: June 19, 2020, 07:20:57 AM »
Looks like you are making some good progress with the lock, Norm!  Makes for a significant difference in the appearance.


Curtis
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Sometimes, late at night when I am alone in the inner sanctum of my workshop and no one else can see, I sand things using only my fingers for backing

Offline Chowmi

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Re: S. Miller Berks county (upper susquehanna) build
« Reply #17 on: June 29, 2020, 01:52:15 AM »
Last week I made some ramrod pipes, including a two piece entry pipe. 

Here's one of the rr pipes:




I'm convinced that the original has a two piece entry pipe, and so I tried to replicate it.  There's a first time for everything, and I referenced Fred Lehto's tutorial, figuring I would be marginally successful after a few attempts. 
I made a male and female form to create the curve in the tail, and to help peen in the step up from the pipe.  The form worked pretty well, but I also spent some time peening the bump up over various curved surfaces I could find.  I got it pretty close on the first attempt.
I silver soldered it to one of the pipe blanks I made and then filed and finalized the shape of the tail. 

(sorry, all my pictures seem to be rotated when they arrive on the post...  Oh well, you get the idea!)









I got my blank and barrel back from David Rase yesterday, and he did a great job on the inlet. 
Last night I drew the profile on the stock and traced out the lock position so I could check on the fit between the lock and the Davis double set triggers.  There's not a lot of room there, and I will have to file the trigger bars down almost all the way, but it should fit.  As a backup, I could bend the sear up a little bit as well. 

My bandsaw can barely cut through 2 1/2 inches of hard maple, which makes it difficult to be accurate, and I don't always trust that it will cut at 90 degrees.  So, I cut the profile a fair way outside the lines and then spent the afternoon today with a sureform and a rasp getting it to the line.  Nearly done. 






Tang inlet next!

Cheers,
Norm
Cheers,
Chowmi

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Offline Adrie luke

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Re: S. Miller Berks county (upper susquehanna) build
« Reply #18 on: June 29, 2020, 05:48:19 PM »
Norm
I recognize your shop
a lot of fun with building the rifle

Offline Chowmi

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Re: S. Miller Berks county (upper susquehanna) build
« Reply #19 on: July 10, 2020, 05:17:23 AM »
I got a bit more done on the Berks Co. gun. 
Tang is shaped and inlet, barrel lugs installed, and the butt plate is on.  I slimmed it down in the square, mostly with a bandsaw, but had to do some the old fashioned way due to limited clearance on my bandsaw.








Lock inlet is next.

Comments welcome,

cheers,
Norm
Cheers,
Chowmi

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