patch reading and breach plug issue

[Sweeney]

Shooting my .58 31" colerain barrel, round rifling. Started with 70grains ff then went to 100 grain. Group was ok but not very good at 100 yds. The small burn marks on patches also have holes in them. Possible Cause? The less burnt patches were the 70 grain loads. Patching is 'pocket drill' from Joann's. Also, my first time 'dry-balling' - had to pull breach plug and marred the top as seen in photo. Any suggestions how to smooth that out?  Thanks for your knowledge!




plcu com

[rich pierce]

It’s not uncommon for a ball/patch combination that works with a moderate charge to fail with more powder. It never hurts to polish the crown by hand (Daryl Sapergia technique) on any rifle as it prevents weakening of fabric fibers when starting.

Id try a thicker patch, well lubed. A dial caliper or micrometer is needed if you’re going to buy fabric at a fabric store instead of ordering patch fabric that is already measured. And thickness is not everything- weave matters as well. If you aren’t ready to buy a caliper or micrometer, buy denim in ounce categories. Try 10 ounce weight denim.

[flinchrocket]

I wrap a scrape piece of brass around the bolster of the breech plug to eliminate dings.

Your patches look like their not thick enough. Hot gases pushing by in the grooves has burned the holes in the patch. Troy if the patches measure .020 or more take a good look at the crown of your barrel.

[smallpatch]

I agree, thicker patch.

[Hungry Horse]

 They look dry to me. Patch lube could be part of the problem. IMO, modern lubes often create more problems than they cure.
  Back when I started shooting black powder, in the early seventies, patch material was usually in the twelve to fifteen thousandths thicknesses, and occasionally eighteen thousandths if you could find it. Now patching considerably thicker seems to be the norm. I think a lot of the patching material is being compromised in loading because it is just too thick. Also modern material (mostly Imported) is inconsistent in quality, and thread count, which can lead to patch failure.

  Hungry Horse

[Daryl]

The burn marks and the holes, are from the powder flame blasting past the ball and patch, in the grooves,
all one of them.
The guys are correct, thicker patch, or larger ball will improve patch integrity. Oft times it is much easier and
better to use a thicker patch with the same ball (especially in the larger bores.  A thicker patch holds more lube
 as well.
Rich is spot-on with his description of load differences seen on patches.  With my old (1986) .69, the thin .022"
patches work fine up to about 90 or 100gr., but over that powder charge, the patches show burns. I need to increase
 the patch from 10oz. denim to 12ounce denim to maintain accuracy and patch integrity.

[moleeyes36]

I wrap a scrape piece of brass around the bolster of the breech plug to eliminate dings.

I used to do the same until I got one of Rice's breech plug wrenches.  They are no fuss, "git 'r done" things that don't damage the finish or bolster. http://www.ricebarrels.com/other%20products.html

Don Richards

[Marcruger]

Denser weave patching would help.  I have a really dense canvas that works super.  If I can see the sun through a fired patch anywhere, I need a denser weave. 

Just out of curiosity, why did you have to remove the breechplug?  Did the screw pull out of the ball?   Pouring some oil down before you pull the ball really helps in getting it out. 

God Bless,   Marc

[hanshi]

Starting a prb into an uncrowned muzzle often causes the end of the lands to cut patches.  Thicker/tighter patches should help, too.  I mostly use heavy, "drop cloth" canvas and even prefer it to denim, which is excellent.

[Scota4570]

Regarding the plug.  Use a tiny ball peen hammer with a polished face.  Using light hits work the metal back into place.  That should get you mostly there. 

[Keith Zimmerman]

Put a felt wad between powder and patch.

[Sweeney]

Regarding the plug.  Use a tiny ball peen hammer with a polished face.  Using light hits work the metal back into place.  That should get you mostly there.

Thanks, I will pursue that method.
Regarding the breech pull - yes the threads on puller stripped out of ball.
I should have mentioned the muzzle is coned and seems very smooth.
I have tried heavy denim (shooting .570 balls) and the loading is extremely difficult no matter how drenched in my lube (bear fat). Though denim did well, the heavy pounding with a range rod to seat the ball does not bode well for reloading with wood ramrod while hunting.  I remain open to further advice. Thanks!

[little joe]

Troy If you can find some linen of the correct thickness try it as linen is much stronger than  cotton

[walks with gun]

   Try a couple different thicknesses of pillow ticking, (several different thicknesses) and wash the starch and junk out of the fabric first.

[alacran]

Troy, you forgot to mention that you were only using spit as a lube. The lower load wasn't burning as much of the spit off .

[EC121]

Today's barrels have grooves deeper than necessary.  There is no good reason except marketing for grooves to be .016" deep.  You have to have a heavier patch that will fill that groove, and then the patch gets jammed or cut on the ball/land contact area.  A larger ball or thicker patch is needed.  For my back yard shooting and hunting I prefer a smaller ball and thicker patch  with a polished crown. 

[Marcruger]

"Today's barrels have grooves deeper than necessary.  There is no good reason except marketing for grooves to be .016" deep.  You have to have a heavier patch that will fill that groove, and then the patch gets jammed or cut on the ball/land contact area.  A larger ball or thicker patch is needed."

Let's re-read that again.  Words of wisdom here EC121, and it mirrors my experience.  God Bless,   Marc 

PS, EC121, did you work with Warning Connies? 

[EC121]

Marc:  I was an Inflight Radar Tech. on the EC121 Super Connies stationed in McClellan AFB, California. 1968-72 including tech school plus Hurricane Camille at Keesler AFB, Miss.   

[Marcruger]

Very cool EC121.  My dad caught a ride on one of those while in SF, and really enjoyed the experience. 

[Daryl]

Regarding the plug.  Use a tiny ball peen hammer with a polished face.  Using light hits work the metal back into place.  That should get you mostly there.

Thanks, I will pursue that method.
Regarding the breech pull - yes the threads on puller stripped out of ball.
I should have mentioned the muzzle is coned and seems very smooth.
I have tried heavy denim (shooting .570 balls) and the loading is extremely difficult no matter how drenched in my lube (bear fat). Though denim did well, the heavy pounding with a range rod to seat the ball does not bode well for reloading with wood ramrod while hunting.  I remain open to further advice. Thanks!

As noted several times before, tight combinations and coned muzzles do not go well together.  It's too bad, but that is how the situation is.
A rounded crown (not coned) like we use, allows VERY tight combinations that do load quite easily, even with rods that are tapered.