Maple for Mr. Oerter

[WESTbury]

Close to 5000 Gunstock Blanks.

I'm sure someone on this forum can answer this: what percentage of the blanks actually were made into rifles? I would imagine that some hidden flaw in the blanks may have caused the stock maker to discard a few.

Also, the numbers in the 1770's were substantially higher. I'm guessing that there is a correlation with the expanding population and the build up to the Rev War.

[spgordon]

No, I should have explained better.

These aren't cumulative. They are annual inventories. So, for instance, this--

1768: 260 gunstock blanks
1769: 260 gunstock blanks
1770: 260 gunstock blanks

--indicates only that, in May of the year, that many blanks were counted. You could conclude that none at all were used from 1768 to 1769 and none at all from 1769 to 1770. Maybe very same 260 blanks that were there in 1768 were still there in 1770?  Or: perhaps 50 new ones were produced, and consumed, in each of these years, leaving the same number to be counted in May. Any numbers are possible.

There is no way to move from the amounts in these inventories to how many gunstocks blanks were produced over these years or, more interesting, used over these years. That is why knowing about the deliveries to Oerter from the daybook (new information) is very interesting ...

[spgordon]

I think the important questions to speculate about, given the new information, might be:

How many blanks might one expect from the maple wood that was sawn (and delivered?) in April 1772 and April/May 1773?

How long would it take for the newly-cut maple wood to appear in these inventories as gunstock blanks on hand?

Do the new blanks produced from that April 1772 order appear among the 400 blanks counted in May 1772? Unlikely. Would they have appeared among the 450 blanks counted in May 1773? Still probably not, if it took such a long time to cure this wood.

Only then, I think, one can begin to speculate about what these numbers below mean as far as how many blanks were actually being used. It would still be speculation, but more informed than speculation based on the inventories alone (which are mostly useless to help answer these questions about how many blanks were actually used, even when the number declines).

1772: 400 gunstock blanks
1773: 450 gunstock blanks
1774: 400 gunstock blanks
1775: 400 gunstock blanks
1776: 300 gunstock blanks
1777: 300 gunstock blanks

One puzzling thing. The annual inventories aim to measure what the shop is worth, totalling up its assets (its tools & its parts & any product sitting around) and its debts. So it would make sense that, since these large orders worth a fair amount of money had been delivered to the shop in spring 1772 and spring 1773, they would show up among its assets. So they should be "counted" in the May 1772 and May 1773 inventories. But, where--if not as "finished" blanks?

[mr. no gold]

Since there was a Sawyer industry present in the community, it is quite possible that they were supplying wood for gunstocks, and furniture to outlying makers, much as builders today mostly buy their wood from those who are equipped to cut and dry the product. That potential would relieve Oerter and Co. from exhausting themselves in frenzied production of fine arms.
Dick

[WESTbury]

No, I should have explained better.

Scott--Thanks for opening my eyes. I should have shown your post to my wife, she was a Beancounter in her working life. I on the other hand had a real job as a machine designer.

[spgordon]

Since there was a Sawyer industry present in the community, it is quite possible that they were supplying wood for gunstocks, and furniture to outlying makers, much as builders today mostly buy their wood from those who are equipped to cut and dry the product. That potential would relieve Oerter and Co. from exhausting themselves in frenzied production of fine arms.

This is a very interesting idea. Yes, perhaps the maple planks were supplied to Oerter, who with an apprentice cut them into gunstock blanks and supplied them to other makers in the area. They would have been delivered to Oerter, rather than sold directly from the sawmill to the other makers, because it was Oerter's labor that would convert them from planks into gunstock blanks. Entirely possible.

I'm trying to think where one could look for traces of such sales. (We have no daybook from the Christiansbrunn gunshop.) But a very interesting possibility.

One interesting implication, if true: the few income figures that we do have for the gunshop, then, wouldn't be entirely the sum of the repair work and sales of "new" product: it would also involve selling "supplies" such as these gunstock blanks.

[Tanselman]

It would be great to know how long Oerter's shop allowed a blank to dry. I would think they were very knowledgeable in drying wood, and had a number of years in mind for all fresh blanks. Old violin makers often dried sound board wood many years. If a well-trained gunsmith had a specific number of years he liked to dry his blanks, to insure good quality rifles, then he could easily calculate the number of new blanks he needed to start drying each year, and how many blanks should be at each stage of drying, for perhaps five years out in the future.

If 5 years was his drying number, then he'd need 5 years x his estimated annual production constantly in a staggered phase of drying. If he made about 50 rifles a year, and dried wood for about 5 years, he'd probably keep at least 250 blanks drying at some stage in the drying cycle, plus spares. I'd think he would stock extra blanks each year for those that warped excessively, were somehow ruined or damaged, or ran into unexpected quality problems. I bet there wasn't much guess work in it for them... all business. Shelby Gallien

[Dennis Glazener]

Since there was a Sawyer industry present in the community, it is quite possible that they were supplying wood for gunstocks, and furniture to outlying makers, much as builders today mostly buy their wood from those who are equipped to cut and dry the product. That potential would relieve Oerter and Co. from exhausting themselves in frenzied production of fine arms.
Dick

I know nothing about the Moravian's but it would seem fitting that Oerter may have apprentice's receiving green boards from local sawyers then racking and drying/cutting into blanks for sale to other gunmakers. That way he would have control of the drying/blanking etc.
Dennis

[Eric Kettenburg]

That may be, and it does make some sense given the quantities involved, but a couple of thoughts:

(1) given the meticulous records the Moravians kept, there should be something, somewhere, offering even a passing mention of this?  Yes?  No?

(2) during the period in question, 1760s through War, there were not that many other gun stockers local to this region to provide much of a customer base.  John Moll, Peter Neihart (arguably), Young family or potentially Berlins over toward Easton.  That elusive Leyendecker fellow.  Otherwise any real market would be considerably farther afield.

[spgordon]

(1) given the meticulous records the Moravians kept, there should be something, somewhere, offering even a passing mention of this?  Yes?  No?

Yes, this would have been meticulously recorded, just as the transfer of the lumber to Oerter was recorded in the sawmill daybook.

But the documents in which such transactions were recorded may not have survived. We have no daybook from the Christiansbrunn gunshop and so no record of any "sales" whatsoever from the gunshop in the 1760s. We have only annual inventories and lists of debts to the shop, without any indication of what the sums owed were owed for. So, right, we have no record of sales of blanks. But we also have no record that any gun was ever sold--because we don't have a daybook or ledger that records any sales form the gunshop. (I'm obviously not saying that non gun was ever sold! I'm just saying that the materials that recorded those sales, probably the same daybook, are missing/lost as well.)

(We do know of some earlier sales of rifles to individuals in the 1750s because those were recorded in Bethlehem and those ledgers and journals survive.)

[Eric Kettenburg]

BTW Scott, please always post odd little mundane snippets of information like this whenever you happen to come across them!!!  I for one absolutely appreciate it.  Everything contributes to the painting!

[JTR]

Scott, I agree with Eric, and have greatly appreciated all the Moravian information you've posted here over the years!
John

[Eric Kettenburg]

Scott I read through your last post again, and so I would ask this question:  you mention that there are 'lists of debts' to the CS shop, so (drum roll) in these lists of debts, are there any debts owed to the shop by known gunmakers of the region during the 1760s?  Moll, Neihart, Young, Berlin...  it's a very small pool during this period so a listing of the names, especially if repetitive in terms of debts, would be very interesting.

[spgordon]

I never did see any of these names--would have mentioned them in the "Gunmaking Trade" article. (Link below.)

The only list of outstanding debts from the gunshop I can seem to find right now on my computer is from 1775. Though there must be a lot more, since I remember looking at them for the article. I think all we mention there is that in the 1760s and early 1770s the debts had a lot of Indian names, along with White person's names, but by the mid-1770s they are all White person's names.

Keep in mind, too, that anybody who paid his debt or paid at the time of service would not show up on these lists. These lists just identify folks who haven't paid so the shop can figure out not only its own debts but also its assets (stock, outstanding debts, etc.).

Here's the 1775 list:



And here's the Gunmaking Trade article, for anybody who has a lot of time on his hands. If this Dropbox interface is too clumsy (I'm not sure how else I can share a PDF here), I can send a copy to anybody who emails me.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/l6xgwdnx5svkixw/Moravian%20Gunmaking%20Trade.pdf?dl=0

[blienemann]

Eric and all, I had shoulder replacement surgery last week, so am coming late to this discussion.

In 1777 and 1778, Jacob Dickert owed the CS gunshop for a few rifle barrels the shop supplied him, and there is an item with Albrecht.  But in my study of these outstanding debts, no other gunstockers, and nothing before the Rev War.  More Indian Brethren as customers in 1760's, but more whites in 1770's as the Indians were pushed west.  As you say, there were not many other gunsmiths in the vicinity. 

I think this inventory of wood planks and cut out stocks was for the CS gunshop only - not for retail or trade to others.  But the large number might include some % which were dry and ready to go, and rest in stages of drying?  Yes, they knew the wood business as part of their trade.  Immediately after arriving at Bethlehem in 1750, Albrecht was out looking for walnut and maple trees for gunstocks.  Another settlement near CS mentioned occasionally finding curled maple logs, which were coveted by the gunstocker over at the Spring.  So when a good log of stock wood was found, Oerter and the sawmill guys probably got together.

The CS gunshop was built in Aug 1763, and Albrecht had only one apprentice - Oerter.  When Albrecht moved away in Nov 1766, Oerter was on his own for a bit, then took Levering as an apprentice, and years later, added Loesch.  This was always a very small shop, with no fleet of apprentices to cut up planks, etc.

I wrote an article about 3 day rifles a while back - Jack Brooks stocked a complete rifle from blank in less than 3 days - no pbox or carving, but complete and finished.  Three of us in his small shop cranked out a bunch of long guns and pistols in a few weeks for the last Alamo movie.  We don't know what the demand was over time, but Oerter seemed to have developed name recognition over a large area by 1773, when this wood was cut.  Two trained men and a new apprentice could knock out quite a few guns, either new stocked or restocked, plus repair - IF the demand was there.  Oerter contracted to stock 500 muskets, died early and Wm Henry took over, and it appears that 200 were delivered in a very short time.  That is cranking out the guns.  We need more info, but thanks a bunch to Scott for all his discoveries, which add to our understanding.

Re hiring non-Moravian help, not at CS.  Eric, when you refer to that in NC, I think it is with C Vogler and those after him, so maybe 1785 or later?  The CS gunshop was very busy until about 1780, when the work shifted south, Henry moved to Nazareth and work really slowed down.  The shop was more or less closed ca 1787, before this idea of outside labor was considered.  Weiss may have sold off some stock towards the end, but I don't see any trade with outsiders before that time.

Thanks for a fine thread, and please keep looking, Scott!  Bob

[spgordon]

Well, I'd just suggest again that we do not know whether the Christiansbrunn gunshop supplied blanks to others, because we have not found the daybook which is the only place that such transactions would have been recorded. From the materials that have survived in Moravian records--the inventories, the outstanding debt lists--we do not know, either, about rifle sales to others.

We know a bit about how Oerter's rifles circulated because of the material objects that survive (the rifles themselves), because of that Oerter letter to Baer which is in the State Archives in Harrisburg, etc.

We don't even know about the musket contract, really, from Moravian records: we know about it from the receipt that Walt O'Connor had and an 1810 letter that William Henry II wrote, in which he describes it. The inventories mention musket work, but not for whom (I don't think). Lots of things happened, this shows, that aren't captured by the kind of record (inventory) that happens to have survived.

So I would be very cautious about any conclusions based on what we have seen in the surviving Moravian records. The things that have survived and been found so far--mainly annual inventories--do not record sales and would not record any sale of blanks (or anything else) to other gunmakers.

Sure, if demand were high, Oerter and his plus one could use up a lot of those blanks. Was demand high? We have no idea. So, maybe demand wasn't high and ... what might they have done with so many blanks (long before they could possibly have conceived of any musket contract).

The Moravians generally had a thriving trade with their neighbors in all sorts of things--and established the Strangers Store in Bethlehem in 1753 to manage this. They needed the cash from sales to non-Moravians, which enabled them to buy all sorts of things that they could not produce themselves. So it is not crazy that they would sell gunstock blanks to others--if there was a local demand for them.

All that said: as Eric pointed out, with so few gunmakers nearby, it's probably unlikely...

Finding that daybook will likely turn all our assumptions on end, much as learning about Oerter's musket contract did 10+ years ago.

[Eric Kettenburg]

Bob when I mention the NC records, I am not specifically focusing upon the gun stocker but rather the settlement as a whole.  It's clear from Fries translations, though, that right from the start, those who went down to Bethabara realized that they were not going to be able to remain as insular (in terms of raw labor) as they were in PA.  There are numerous mentions of outside laborers being hired or contracted for specific tasks and the potter (Aust) actually took in an itinerant for a period of time specifically for the purpose of learning the latest fashion so as to better the products of his shop.

In regard to how fast a rifle can be constructed, there are many factors that come into play and imho we do not know exactly what was or was not involved in any particular shop.  I do not have "Williamsburg-grade" shop experience but I do have experience living here for 5 years with no electricity or powered shop lighting, and I can tell anyone who asks that *light* is a HUGE factor, especially in PA this time of year through at least April.  There are a number of other factors as well that should be considered.  We buy functional lock mechanisms, but have to go through the giant hassle of polishing or otherwise finishing them; meanwhile, I am under the assumption that most all purchased locks of the 18th century would have been ready for use.  Furnishings: if purchased furnishings were being used, and we do know they were to some extent, how were they supplied?  It's an assumption that at least some ready-polished, ready-to-use furnishings were being imported or otherwise sold.  Barrels: to what degree were they finished when purchased?  Who was making smalls like triggers, pipes, pins, screws etc.  Lots of things to consider.

Were standard shop rifles being whacked out in "shimmel" form by apprentice or whomever and set aside for finishing-to-order?  When we find surviving shimmels now, is this what were are looking at?

[blienemann]

Scott, would you agree from the records we do have, that no non-Moravian help was involved with the CS gunshop during its tenure?

If you with questions have the two books, check the annual inventories provided, which list finished locks, triggers of various types, finished barrels, sometime list roughed out barrels that need to be reamed and rifled, list brass mounts as either pounds of castings or numbers of finished or ready mounts, they purchased screws, sheet brass and iron, brass and iron wire and so on.  Silver stars, sights and scrapers or tow worms often made in the shop.  The inventories give us a good idea of what was purchased, and what was done in the shop.  This changed a bit over time, as the Rev War embargo affected access.

Stock blanks of presumed very curly maple had very little value then - 1 shilling, vs 20 shillings for a barrel or 10 schillings for a good lock.  Compare that to cost of good wood today.

Scott gave a link to our article for the Journal of Moravian History.  The Moravian Archives offers this small book for sale at a very reasonable cost, which then helps them maintain these wonderful records for our study.  We hope for more discoveries.

How fortunate we are to have as many Oerter rifles, plus a few others, the letter in his own hand, and these records.  Sure was good for us that the CS gunshop continued communally for years, and was required to keep these records, after most trades were privatized at Bethlehem and other locations.

[spgordon]

Scott, would you agree from the records we do have, that no non-Moravian help was involved with the CS gunshop during its tenure?

Yep, zero chance, as I wrote somewhere in the thread above.

I'll boil the issue with inventories down to this:

• the Christiansbrunn gunshop could have been sending 3 dozen blanks to a customer every month for a decade and the inventories would not record it.
• Oerter could have had a rifle contract that supplied twenty rifles every year to a Philadelphia merchant in the mid-1770s (maybe that's why he numbered his barrels?) and the inventories would not record it.

The inventories record what is present at fiscal year-end (May). They are good for answering some questions. They cannot help with others.