The First Pattern to be Followed

[WESTbury]

The first pattern for American Flintlock Muskets after the Rev War was the French Model 1763 and Model1766 as produced at Charleville Arsenal. From surviving examples, it is evident that the M1766 with 1770 and 1773 Improvements was the example copied at Springfield Armory. All flintlock muskets produced at Springfield from 1795 through late 1814 were officially designated as the Charleville Pattern.

The Charleville M1766 with 1770 and 1773 presented below appears on pages 11 through 16, including in depth descriptions and more photos, of my book Springfield Armory Infantry Muskets 1795-1844 published in 2015 by Mowbray Publishing. Dennis Glazener very kindly posted in the Recent Books section of this forum.

[Bigmon]

I am writing in regards to the French musket.  I have one that I am advised is a Modele 1770-71 (1772).  The barrel is marked 1772, the lock M-1770?  And surcharged US.
It was acquired from Donald Baird PHD.  I was a noted collector and I have his original index card notes on the musket.  But I don't know much about these.
I also have a Springfirls Model 1795, very rough.  I believe a made 1814?  A lot of differences, but still similar.?
Thanks for your posting

[WESTbury]

I also have a Springfirls Model 1795, very rough.  I believe a made 1814?  A lot of differences, but still similar.?
Thanks for your posting

Bigmon
Glad you like the posting.
What is the barrel length of your 1814 dated Springfield?
What style buttstock does it have? In 1814, Springfield used three different types of buttstocks shown in the photos below. Also, in 1814 Springfield flint muskets had two barrel lengths, 42 inches and 44-1/2 inches.

The upper buttstock is the Charleville type, the middle the shallow elliptical shape cheek recess adopted in 1813, and the bottom has the deeper rectangular shaped cheek recess adopted in late 1814. The differences between the middle and bottom are subtle. In 1815 the cheek recess became deeper and very pronounced.

[Clark Badgett]

I am writing in regards to the French musket.  I have one that I am advised is a Modele 1770-71 (1772).  The barrel is marked 1772, the lock M-1770?  And surcharged US.
It was acquired from Donald Baird PHD.  I was a noted collector and I have his original index card notes on the musket.  But I don't know much about these.
I also have a Springfirls Model 1795, very rough.  I believe a made 1814?  A lot of differences, but still similar.?
Thanks for your posting

Share some pictures of both. I for one would love to see any old Charleville types.

[ptk1126]

I have a Charleville with a broken forestock, but I am not sure what model it might be.










All the best
Paul

[WESTbury]

I have a Charleville with a broken forestock, but I am not sure what model it might be.
All the best
Paul

Paul-- Thanks for the posting. Your nicely marked "Charleville" lock looks like a M1777 lock and the ribbed triggerguard is very probably M1777 as well. The barrel, from what is visible at the breech, is possibly Dutch or Prussian. The French did not have turning rings on the breech of the barrel. They look to be too "heavy" to be British.

The stock looks to be French M1777 as well but it's hard to be sure without seeing more of it. Does the musket have barrel bands?
Kent

[ptk1126]

Kent

Thanks for the info. The musket did have barrel bands but the stock
was broken just in front of the rear band retainer spring.

Any idea why it would have a Dutch or Prussian barrel ? What is the meaning
of "St Sou" on the barrel ? There is another barrel ring just forward of the
rear band.

Thanks again
Paul

[WESTbury]

Paul--I've been looking through some books I have on barrel markings, etc. , but have not found a match for yours, yet. I'll keep digging.

What is the bore size and how long is the barrel?

The info on the barrel having multiple rings may help identify it. A lot of very knowledgeable guys on this site.

Kent

[Hungry Horse]

 Check the bore size, to see if it’s closer to 12ga. Or 16ga. It might be a repurposed British barrel. And check it length as well, although Brown Bess barrels didn’t have a a wedding band farther out on the barrel some carbines did. Same goes for French calibers, carbines were different.  It might be an assembled parts musket.

   Hungry Horse

[ptk1126]

Barrel length is 34.5" and inside dimension is .69". Inside the bow of the
trigger guard there appears to be 2 letters, the 2nd of which is "R". I wonder
about the small spade-shaped trigger.

Thanks for your help

Paul

[WESTbury]

Paul--The "R" inside the triggerguard bow is a Charleville inspector stamp. The side plate is French, very probably Charleville as well.

In your photo showing the sideplate, the turnings on the breech of the barrel do not seem to be quite as pronounced as they appear in one of the photos from your initial post.

 The stamped letters on the breech of the barrel are a puzzle though. We'll keep digging.

Kent