Author Topic: minitures in foxfire  (Read 6013 times)

ottawa

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minitures in foxfire
« on: August 19, 2009, 03:57:13 PM »
I was looking thur fox 5 and saw the pics of the rifles that Hacker Martin made for his grandkids dose anyone have any info on these type of rifles IE caliber, barrel size,and dose anyone make a barrel like that? I think the lock would have to be pretty much custom done as well .
thanks
Ben

Offline G-Man

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Re: minitures in foxfire
« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2009, 06:19:57 PM »
Not sure on the Hacker Martin pieces, but Myron Carlson made several beautiful little iron mounted miniature copies of some of the most famous southern rifles, like the Joseph Bogle rifle.  As I recall I think(?) they were a little bigger than 1/3 scale, but smaller than 1/2 scale; 22 caliber barrels and very true to the originals.  I don't know who made the barrels or if Myron made them from blanks.  He was quite a workman with a piece of metal.  Tim Albert might know.

Guy

Offline J. Talbert

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Re: minitures in foxfire
« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2009, 06:32:12 PM »
Guy,

It's been quite a while back, but I beleive Myron once told me he made the barrels from modern .22 barrels.

Jeff
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ottawa

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Re: minitures in foxfire
« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2009, 07:50:10 PM »
modern .22 theres a good start duh why didnt I think of that  :o I just saw a ogt barrle for a .22 for sale for around 35 $

Sam Everly

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Re: minitures in foxfire
« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2009, 08:35:50 PM »
Myron used the barrels from the Stevens 22's like the crackshot. Everything else he made.

Offline Pete G.

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Re: minitures in foxfire
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2009, 01:35:06 AM »
I am building a boy's rifle right now. It has turned out to be much different than making a big rifle small. Odd things pop up, like haveing to make a tang screw because you really need a #6 and they are not commercially available. Catalog thimbles look too long, so you make your own, but the biggest thing is that on a big rifle a small flaw might can can be overlooked whereas on a small rifle even a small flaw looks big. This is especially so in your architecture.

Offline Larry Luck

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Re: minitures in foxfire
« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2009, 01:53:15 AM »
I recall Fred Miller had a boy's rifle barrel and stock set with an octagon to round barrel and a slim stock.
Larry Luck

Offline T.C.Albert

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Re: minitures in foxfire
« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2009, 02:06:22 AM »
Yep, Myron used octogon .22 cal. barrels...1/2 scale...that would be about a .44 scaled back up so he figured it would be perfect...he was really proud of those little rifles and rightly so, they are beautiful.
Like has been said, he hand made everything else for them including the locks ! The forged iron hardware was exactly half scale of the southern sets he used to make and sell at friendship...he would often set up the small rifle with the full sized one at the shows...I was lucky enough to make a half sized pouch set to go with one of them...Im not sure what happened to that rifle, but I think his son ended up with it?
TCA

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Offline Acer Saccharum

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Re: minitures in foxfire
« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2009, 06:41:05 PM »
Speaking of miniature rifles, did anyone see the mini longrifle that Paul Hamler has been working on? He had some examples at the CLA. He made molds and castings for the lock, full length stock, patchbox, swamped oct barrel. I assume he's working this project into a kit. Pretty neat.

I am looking for his site on this, but it may not be published yet. This is his blog, but no mini riffle posted yet: http://hamlertools.blogspot.com/2007_08_01_archive.html
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Offline Ky-Flinter

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Re: minitures in foxfire
« Reply #9 on: August 21, 2009, 07:15:44 PM »
This picture is from the recent CLA show....


That silver disc is a quarter!  Yes, the locks function.

This gentleman had the lock casting set there for sale.  Said he would also sell the lock assembled.  Very interesting fellow.  I picked up some great tips from him.  He also had the coolest miniature tools....  guess you have to have mini tools to build mini guns.

-Ron
« Last Edit: May 13, 2020, 10:59:04 PM by Ky-Flinter »
Ron Winfield

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Madcaster

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Re: minitures in foxfire
« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2009, 01:04:17 PM »
 Let us not forget in Buckskin Report,the swivel breech made by Gerald Neeves,of  Lansing,NC.Some people just like a challenge in life! :)

Offline Sequatchie Rifle

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Re: minitures in foxfire
« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2009, 05:07:57 PM »
Last April I saw one of the rifles Hacker Martin built for one of his grandsons.  It was one of the finest rifles I've ever seen.  It had a wonderful octagon barrel and all the features he included on his standard rifles.  I can find out the caliber for sure, but think it was 36 caliber. The rifle is in East Tennessee.
"We fight not for glory, nor riches nor honors, but for freedom alone, which no good man gives up except with his life.” Declaration of Arbroath, 1320

Paul Hamler

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Re: minitures in foxfire
« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2009, 06:06:31 PM »
As Pete mentioned, on a big rifle a small flaw might be overlooked whereas on a small rifle even a small flaw looks big. This is especially so in your architecture.
Having built miniatures tools for 30 years I had reached a point where the challenge was gone and  there was no longer the" fire in my belly" to continue with miniature tools  I was looking for a new challenge and boy did I find it in building 1/3 scale miniature Kentucky rifles.
 The center rifle in the above picture Ron posted was built over 30 years ago when the only tool in the modest shop was a drill press,I used the book The Modern Kentucky Rifle:   
 by R.H. McCrory. Included in the book was a full size blue print that I scaled down to 1/3 scale.The barrel on this gun was made from mild steel but at the time I had
no way to drill the barrel  all the way through . Having added a few new skills and many machines in the workshop I wanted to try and raise the bar on building miniature rifles and also be able to produce components that could be sold as parts or kits for those wanting to build their own miniature rifle. In order to capture the scale detail I took the approach I had used in building miniature tools for 30 years...use a full size original to obtain accurate measurements and details. For my first production run I chose a Jim Chambers early Lancaster kit as the master. The last year was spent building a stock duplicator to copy the pre carved Chambers stock at 1/3 scale, additional tooling was built including a CNC rifling machine, barrel drilling fixtures,a barrel swamping machine, models and molds to cast all the hardware, special miniature carving and stabbing tools for doing micro carving and wire inlay for .004 wire. Also a few hours developing a miniature spring former and hours learning to temper and harden really small springs.
In order to maintain dead accurate scale reproduction of the barrel I had two choices on making the barrel . The first was to use round  DOM (drawn over mandrel) 1040 or 1030 aircraft tubing or 12L14square  bar stock without a hole. Each solution had different challenges and I ended up choosing the 12L14 solution  after solving the problem of drilling a .1875 dole end to end and having the drill come out within .002 at the other end.
Ron, there is a little truth in the statement " you need mini tools to make mini guns" but just remember you can make small parts on a big machine but can't make big parts on a small machine. Sometimes when people are taken with the miniatures I have made over the years I point out my stuff is big if you want to see small or really miniature just remove the back from your wristwatch and look at the parts inside.
I would like to thank all the fine people I have met in the gunbuilding community during the last year for their help and support, and those who took the time to critique my current miniature at the CLA . If I can help in any way in the miniature solutions please  give me a a PM  or call.
Paul Hamler   
 

oakridge

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Re: minitures in foxfire
« Reply #13 on: August 24, 2009, 08:38:23 PM »
Thanks, Paul. All I can say is WOW! You not only found a new challenge, you raised the bar.

Offline Acer Saccharum

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Re: minitures in foxfire
« Reply #14 on: August 24, 2009, 08:42:47 PM »
Paul, I gotta ask: do these locks spark, and spark enough to fire? I would use one of these guns to go mouse hunting, or if it was a fowler, I would load it up with cornmeal and shoot the carpenter bees hovering above my deck.
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Paul Hamler

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Re: minitures in foxfire
« Reply #15 on: August 25, 2009, 02:27:00 AM »
Tom, yes the lock will spark and I have seen several black powder rifles 1/2 and 1/3 scale that have been fired, but usually something has to be rescaled in some ways, such as making the touch hole a little larger than scale or beefing up the the frizzen spring,When scaling components in miniature the mechanical properties and strength of materials isn't always linear. When completed and sold my guns will not have the touch hole drilled through thus I will be selling a miniature gun for whatever reason the buyer or collector buys it for. If the buyer wants to drill the hole through and fire he will do so at his own risk to his health and potential damage to the gun. I hope I can find a cheap lawyer to put this in writing,life is to short to get involved in law suits.
By the way I live in a log cabin and have fought carpenter bees for years. A friend of mine recently successfully reloaded the small rat shot cartridges used in some 17 caliper pellet guns . He has modified the loading with a much finer shot and also used fine bead blasting media, at about 12 feet the pattern is 4 or 5 inches in diameter and provides a sort of miniature skeet shoot when going after those pesky carpenter bees.When hit the bee is stunned and fall to the ground, then one can do the bee stomp.
Paul