Sheetz Build

[old dog]

Gents,
Hope I picked the correct thread.  I have been considering building my version of a Martin Sheetz gun that I own.  Martin was my 4th great-grandfather.  Any way, I removed the lock today and discovered that the internal parts including the fly and bridle are much like those in Chambers locks.  I have it in my head that early locks did not have a bridle but I have never seen the guts of an early lock.  I know this gun was built prior to 1809 because Martin died that year.  Looking forward to your input.
Old Dog

[J. Talbert]

Would love to see pix of the lock.  Not familiar with Martin Sheetz of where he may have worked.  Regardless, quality export locks, or locally made locks of the period ~1770 to 1809 would have had bridles, and also flys if intended for use with double set triggers.  Cheaper, less quality locks, such as the locks commonly used on Trade Guns would have been more likely to be without bridles.
It’s not surprising that your lock internals resemble those of Chambers locks, since Chambers locks are all patterned after original examples.

Good luck with your build

Jeff

[old dog]

Jay,
The Sheetz family resided in Shepherds Town Va., now West Virginia.  Some resided farther south in the Shanendoah Valley.  The gun does have a set trigger.  The forward lock bolt is screwed into the stock rather than the lock plate.  There is some rust on the internal parts but it does work.  I also find it interesting that all of the wood separating the oblique flat of the barrel and the lock is gone and the barrel is browned for those interested in such things.  Thank you for your response.
Old Dog

[galamb]

A few years back I did quite a bit of research on rifles built by John Jacob Sheetz.

If I'm remembering correctly he would have been a nephew of your GGGG Grandfather. Ultimately I decided on a couple of other builds and (it) went to the back burner but I had acquired a CD (name of the org escapes me now) that contained at least a dozen West Virginia rifles including a number of Sheetz rifles.

Ultimately, what I remember now is 1) a Chambers "Golden Age" lock was absolutely the closest I could find to original examples (at least that I looked at) and 2) many of the rifles I studied were "sub-45 caliber" which may have reflected the fact that larger game was mostly wiped out, at least by time that John was building rifles (he built at least one famous one that was used during the war of 1812 in the Battle of New Orleans).

[B.Barker]

Bridals and flys have little to do with time period. Bridal and flys have more to do with quality. Jeagers from the earliest flint period have set triggers so the locks had flys and bridals on them.

[homerifle]

I and I'm sure others would love to see pictures of your Martin Sheetz rifle. Any chance you could post some?

[Elnathan]

"Bridle" can refer both to the internal bridle that provides support for the tumbler, and the external arm extending from the pan supporting the frizzen pivot screw. Locks without external bridles were pretty common, but I think moderate-to-good quality locks from the mid-18th century on had internal bridles as a matter of course.

[old dog]

Thanks again.  Photography and IT are not my best suits but I will give it a try.  I did notice that the bridal is mounted next to the bolster rather than on it.

Old Dog

[homerifle]

Old Dog, what I've seen from the Sheetz family including Martin are a few hand made locks by them. They used a lot of the late Ketland locks as well. That being said you won't be wrong in building your rifle with a Chambers late Ketland lock.   IMHO!

[Bob Roller]

A lock with a fly in an American rifle from the flint era is not really common
and a long bow can lay down a lot more "fire power" than any muzzle loader.
Bob Roller

[old dog]

I used to own what maybe Martins best and most well known gun.  It was vey nicely carved and engraved but the wire inlay on the forestock set it aside from other work.  This gun has no carving but it does have a pierced patchbox.  There appears to be no damage or repairs.  The other gun had had a broken wrist but was nicely repaired.  I have the trigger guard and butt plate for the gun but I have not looked into the lock selection yet.  I believe the bp and tg are Reeves Gherig's castings.  The lock plate is just a plain piece of flat iron engraved M Sheetz.  I know the Chambes Dale Johnson lock has an oversized plate that can be shaped.  This lock is 51/4 x 1".  If nothing else, I was thinking of looking for someone to build a lock.  I will try to get some photos out soon. 
Old Dog

[homerifle]

Old Dog, I've been a student of Shenandoah valley/Hampshire county Virginia rifles most of my life.  I have a parts gun with a M. Sheetz lock in it that has been converted sometime in its life to percussion. That lock is very close to 5 3/8 inches long. Is this something that you would need to see to go forward with your build? I could supply you a tracing of it if that would be of any help.

[old dog]

I don't think so Homerifle, but thanks for the offer.  I have a bench copy of the M Sheetz gun I had earlier built by Paul Allison.  I'll have to look again to see what it looks like.  I do recall that it is a a Chambers lock.  The gun is a beautiful piece of work.  The earlier gun had been converted to percussion and one of the House boys converted it back to flint.   A Common feature of locks on Martin's guns is the end of the lock plate was turned down to a small point.  It's to bad he died at such an early age.  He and his wife died within ayear of each other in 1808 leaving 4 small boys, none of which became gunsmiths.
Old Dog

[flinchrocket]

Did the boys grow up in Ross County Ohio ? No girls ?

[old dog]

No girls.  Popular belief is that they left Shepardstown at what would have been the age of maturity, what ever age that would have been then.  No records have been found regarding their disposition after the deaths of their parents.  Martin had an older sister who married a Haynes who was a millwright and buit at least three mills in Ross County.  I believe Martin's boys relocated to Ross County to be with their aunt and family.
Old Dog

[flinchrocket]

http://usgenwebsites.org/OHRoss/Vital%20Record%20Files/Marriages/marriages_1789_1850_c.htm

Go down to Chamberlin, Elizebeth.

[old dog]

Flinch,
She is my ggg grandmother.  I am pretty familiar with the Sheetz family tree.
I grew up in Chillicothe.
Old Dog

[flinchrocket]

I didn't know if you had seen that or not, I happened across it while looking up something on my GGG-grandmother ( Barbary Sheets).

[SyLibby]

Sorry to resurrect a slightly old thread.  The Sheetz title jumped out at me.  John Sheetz of Staunton is my direct ancestor.  I'm planning to build one of his rifles as my first build.  Very cool to see all of these extremely extended relations out there. 

Scott Sheets

[flinchrocket]

Scott, you might be interested to know that Pecatonica Longrifles has a John Sheets stock. It is not on their website,but I believe it is the one that Muzzleloader Builder Supply sells if that is the direction your headed.

[SyLibby]

Thanks for the info. I'm only about an hour and a half from Pecatonica's shop.  I was planning to use them anyway. This will be a great help.  Picking a stock has been my biggest problem

[STJ1954]

I was planning a Sheetz build also. Put a list of parts in to Muzzleloaders Builders Supply and they sent back that some of the parts they no longer carry. They said they are revising there web page to show this. Not sure what's available or not. If you come up with a source please post. I know Jedediah Starr has side plate and patch box.