Author Topic: Butt Plate / Comb Problem (Read 3537 times)

silky · « **on:** December 28, 2020, 03:27:48 AM »

Evening,

I'm shaping the butt stock on my rifle right now and, architecturally, something isn't quite right with the comb and heel of the butt plate. The big takeaway is I didn't do a great job with the inletting angle of the butt plate; that said, I'm hoping you can help me make it look as good as it can at this point.

A few problems I now see are:

1) I didn't do a good job of filing perfectly flat the bottom of the heel, making for a slightly curved appearance that I think conflicts with the overall straight comb.

2) In filing the butt plate, I put a slight downward angle on the tail of the top flat (rear 1/2" or so) that does not match up with the overall straight profile of the comb... though I'm not sure that's the issue here.

3) (Fixable) On the molding at the front of the butt plate heel, the ring that butts up to the wood of the comb is currently taller than the one behind it. I think that might be contributing to the awkwardness of the overall profile. I can and will file that down to the height of the one behind it when I do the final clean-up/polish (or now).

The comb is ever so slightly convex when viewed in side profile.

To your eyes, what have I done incorrectly? Any recommendations on how to fix it at this point? I don't want lose much, if any, height off the comb but am thinking that maybe required if applying the fix in Point 3 above makes the whole thing flow better. I also can/will clean up the butt plate shaping; please advise if part of the fix lives in doing so.

I appreciate your time. Lots of lessons learned here...

If it helps, I've been using John Graeff's rifle (#21 in the Kindig book) as my overall guide/inspiration.

Thank you!

- Tom

AMartin · « **Reply #1 on:** December 28, 2020, 03:50:34 AM »

I don't comment often but ... your fitting of the buttplate is fine .. the problem is the buttplate that you chose it the problem .
I'm not sure who made this pattern for this buttplate but it really sucks . the angle of the heel extension is thicker in the front than the rear ... and many other things are wrong .. giving the wrong architecture from the git go ..

The heel extension should be straight or flat where it meets the wood (on a Lancaster style buttplate ) your buttplate is curved down hill and this makes it hard , next to impossible to sure it look proper ..I never seen a original rifle with this style of buttplate ever !!
My honest advice is on the next rifle , use a proper buttplate and other hardware to make a great rifle .

As for this rifle , perhaps making the wedding band thinner and giving the appearance of a taper .. But like I always say , the inletting of any parts or component is only as good as the prepping of the part itself . Don't take a piece of metal from a supplier and think that it's ready to go ..
Most if not all need a little tweaking ..

Good job on what you had to work with ... use better parts on your next rifle !!

Merry Xmas .. God bless ..
Allen Martin

smylee grouch · « **Reply #2 on:** December 28, 2020, 04:34:24 AM »

Could you buy a new butt plate, do a better job of filing, and inlet it more carefully?

Dphariss · « **Reply #3 on:** December 28, 2020, 04:42:53 AM »

If you want to change the buttplate you can get brass colored silver solder from Rio Grande.Sliver. Solder some brass sheet to the buttplate and file to the proper shape. Might have to file off the rear ring and then reform the ring after adding the extra brass. This will bring it up to the proper height.
This solder will not show since it matches brass very well. But it is high temp
Dan

Stophel · « **Reply #4 on:** December 28, 2020, 06:33:54 AM »

I had a precarved stock cut for this horrible, horrible buttplate many long years ago. As I recall, I managed to get another one fit instead.

https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/669/1/BP-E-34-B

Now, it don't exactly drop in... and the stock will have to be reshaped some to accomodate, but I made it do. You may find another one that fits more easily. The "K5" buttplate may be less trouble, as it's flatter on top.

https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/669/2/BP-K-5-B

silky · « **Reply #5 on:** December 28, 2020, 09:39:52 PM »

Alright, I'm going to replace it with a new (correct) butt plate that's pretty close in dimensions; it should fit great with some filing and inletting, and without requiring too much rework of the butt stock architecture.

Thanks for taking the time to help me out with this mistake, gentlemen. Lesson learned. Chalk one up to experience and move forward, right!?

- Tom

flinchrocket · « **Reply #6 on:** December 28, 2020, 10:55:30 PM »

I think it would be easier to straighten up that plate than clean up a new one. File about half the wedding band off and clean it up. Take some off the bottom of the heel at the front and straighten it up, then reinlet.

mikeyfirelock · « **Reply #7 on:** December 29, 2020, 04:02:22 AM »

I’m with flinchrocket. Rather than start over, you can save what you have and it will look just fine. BTDT.

Jim Kibler · « **Reply #8 on:** December 29, 2020, 06:01:18 PM »

Quote from: AMartin on December 28, 2020, 03:50:34 AM

I don't comment often but ... your fitting of the buttplate is fine .. the problem is the buttplate that you chose it the problem .
I'm not sure who made this pattern for this buttplate but it really sucks . the angle of the heel extension is thicker in the front than the rear ... and many other things are wrong .. giving the wrong architecture from the git go ..

The heel extension should be straight or flat where it meets the wood (on a Lancaster style buttplate ) your buttplate is curved down hill and this makes it hard , next to impossible to sure it look proper ..I never seen a original rifle with this style of buttplate ever !!
My honest advice is on the next rifle , use a proper buttplate and other hardware to make a great rifle .

As for this rifle , perhaps making the wedding band thinner and giving the appearance of a taper .. But like I always say , the inletting of any parts or component is only as good as the prepping of the part itself . Don't take a piece of metal from a supplier and think that it's ready to go ..
Most if not all need a little tweaking ..

Good job on what you had to work with ... use better parts on your next rifle !!

Merry Xmas .. God bless ..
Allen Martin

You should comment more and people should listen. Don't hold back!

heinz · « **Reply #9 on:** December 29, 2020, 06:11:31 PM »

Silky, replace the buttplate. You can not fix yours without a ridiculous time investment.

Ats5331 · « **Reply #10 on:** December 29, 2020, 06:13:14 PM »

Been dwelling on this, but I agree with the others above. Seems like the casting itself is somewhat off. Replacing it is the best solution unfortunately..

Good luck!

little joe · « **Reply #11 on:** December 29, 2020, 06:22:48 PM »

What Flintchrocket said.

silky · « **Reply #12 on:** December 29, 2020, 07:18:45 PM »

Morning,

Since that butt plate is coming off regardless, I'm going to start by attempting to reshape it as suggested; the picture below shows some straight lines that can be made by working with what's already on there. Best case, it does the trick and requires the minimal amount of re-inletting and the new butt plate awaits a new project. Worst case, I get some brass shaping practice before moving on to inletting the new one.

Thanks for the help.

- Tom

silky · « **Reply #13 on:** January 04, 2021, 07:08:52 AM »

Evening,

Just wanted to follow up and say thanks for the advice to fix this mistake. As some suggested, I reshaped the butt plate and re-inlet it. Overall, I'm calling this one a win. The profile of the comb is a little less than it was before but, all said, I'll take that over the ugliness of that awkward butt plate profile.

The pictures below are to help anyone in the future who runs into the same problem and searches this topic.

(That's a shadow at the bottom of the butt plate, not a gap in the inletting; gotta file the brass down a bit now to make it flush with the stock)

Thanks again!

- Tom

Top Jaw · « **Reply #14 on:** January 04, 2021, 04:49:23 PM »

Excellent rework!

BOB HILL · « **Reply #15 on:** January 04, 2021, 05:43:32 PM »

That is a great recovery. This is a fine example of good advice given by an outstanding maker and it being used. Quite often this is not the case. Good job Silky. Someone gave me a copy of that same butt plate one time. I used it, but only after taking most of the wedding band thickness off. Keep up the good work.
Bob

D. Taylor Sapergia · « **Reply #16 on:** January 04, 2021, 08:27:36 PM »

I thought I'd seen that butt plate before, and here it is, I think. It's on a rifle by the late John Bivins...I suspect it is one of his castings.

BOB HILL · « **Reply #17 on:** January 04, 2021, 11:01:34 PM »

The one I'm remembering may have started out a Bivens butt plate, but someone had filed the area behind the wedding band way thinner than the band. I was able to salvage with a little filework. Many fine gunmakers ( better than me) commented on this problem. It's good to see advice followed.
Just saying
Bob

AMartin · « **Reply #18 on:** January 06, 2021, 02:12:17 PM »

Thanks Jim ..

I guess I'm too preoccupied to be pecking at the computer keys to often ..
I'll try to pay more attention !!

Allen

flehto · « **Reply #19 on:** January 11, 2021, 08:59:15 PM »

I've always thought that Bplate was called a Bivins style......saw it stated in writing a few times. Never used it on my Lancasters because it looked kinda odd.....Fred

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Author Topic: Butt Plate / Comb Problem (Read 3537 times)