Power Tools vs Hand Tools

[northmn]

As threads start getting off course a little the use of power tools finishing brass was mentioned.  As usual many rightly warn that the use of power tools can cause more damage and lose more time than they help.  Here's my two cents.  First, their place is generally not in the final finishing but in roughing in.  My bandsaw cuts down the shaping time considerably but I do not saw to final dimensions.  I used to able to inlet most of a straight barrel on a tablesaw in one afternoon.  Most were very tight inlets.  I just finished a hand inletting of a round barrel without tool assist and could have done just as well roughing in.  One individual mentioned the problems of installing a but plate, I can rough one in very quickly with the band saw and then finish by hand.
One of the problems with use of hand tools today is that we do not have all of the tools as used.  Where some one today will hand chisel a barrel a gunsmith may have had a set of router planes to assist the task.  My favorite scene in a Gunsmith of Williamsburg was Gussler using a hatchet to remove wood in the butt area.  That could screw up a project as quick as anything for many novices.
My lock mortises and inlays see very limited use of dremmels as they can mess up those areas fast.  Most inlays are done the old fashioned way.  Power tools to me are good assistants as long as one recognizes their limitations and does not try to final finish with them.  Power sanders can rough down an area but can really mess up a final finish.  There are those that buy precarved stocks run out on computer controlled machines.  Power tools are my precarved stocks.

D.P.

[Stophel]

Power tools allow you to screw up at 3450rpm.

[flehto]

The use of power tools isn't necessary to build a LR but it surely does speed things along if properly done.  Since installing roller bearing blade guides on my bandsaw, sawing on the line expedites the stock shaping big time. The "infamous" Dremel is maligned by many because of the "oops" that can occur when it's not properly used but for many tasks, to me, it's indispensible. I use a cutter to sink the lock "guts", use  1/2" dia. sandpaper wheels to install the curved portion of a buttplate, rough in a sandcast trigger guard,  thin the wall of a cast muzzlecap from the inside and a few other jobs. There must be some skill req'd in a Dremel's use  w/o causing damage and observing rotation is the key. An electric hand drill isn't necessary, but again if one is skilled in it's use, can save some time. The only other power tools in my shop are a floor mounted drill press, 12" stationary disk sander and a bench grinder for shaping tools.  Some may ask..."Why all the emphasis on saving time since most builders are hobbyists?" On  most of the tasks that  I use a power tool, especially the Dremel, I do it because these tasks are labor intensive , downright tedious and really stretch my patience. Overall, I estimate that 90%  of my hours to complete a LR are for using hand tools so I still consider my LRs "hand built".....Fred

[lew wetzel]

some power tools are handy without creating a whole lot of extra work,drill press,router,orbiting sander.but the dremel is the devil in disguise....loli have put my dremel away and will never use it on a gun again........

[eagle24]

some power tools are handy without creating a whole lot of extra work,drill press,router,orbiting sander.but the dremel is the devil in disguise....loli have put my dremel away and will never use it on a gun again........

I got a 3400rpm lesson last night in what a dremel can do to a near perfect lock inlet.  I think I will cut the cord off mine.

[Dphariss]

People that use belt sanders a LOT. Like in a factory, can do wonderful things with them. But if you do basically the same thing all week or maybe a day or 2 every week or so you KNOW HOW.
However, people who buy one and then try to do finish work with it like they see on "How Its Made" will likely end up buying some parts in the course of the "learning curve". What you can buy in the stores is seldom what is in use on some production line. Many of these are in shop/custom made.
I have a small belt sander. It is GREAT for lightening springs, touching up the face on a frizzen, reshaping screw heads with spinning them in an electric drill (REALLY NICE) and hogging off welds. I am fairly good with it even though its a cheapo. For some things its really nice to have around.
I have a dremel that I use some but not all that often. Its just too scary on hard to replace parts.
But in general one is better off doing most work with with a file.
I have a milling machine and its way too easy to screw up a one off setup using this. Often the set up takes so much time that filing will do it faster.
So if you have a one off part that will be hard to replace if you screw it up. Hand finish it.

Dan

[Acer Saccharum]

I use a power drill for rr hole.

Lathe for turning, making screws.

Milling machine for heavy metal removal.

Power engraving system.

In reality, everything could be done by hand, but if it saves me time, I'll use the power equipment.

I won't use:
Dremel for inletting
Sandpaper for early guns

[northwoodsdave]

I may post in my shop the comment "Power Tools allow you to screw up at 3,450 RPM!"

I love power tools and use them often. But for finish and fine work, I far prefer hand tools.  And as I get better with them, I find myself prefering hand tools for many operations.  I'm not going to sell my bandsaw just yet (in fact, i just bought a bigger one) or throw away my drill press.  They are great in their place. And I plan to get a belt sander soon, for roughing in both metal and wood parts.

But for that all important finish work, I just prefer the low-tech options that, as the man said, don't "allow you to screw up at 3,450 RPM."

Thanks, Stophel!

David Lowe

[Stophel]

The only power tools I generally use are a bandsaw, drill press, hand drill, grinder, and the OCCASIONAL use of a Dremel tool...just about the only thing I can think of that I use it for is grinding out the pans on locks.  It can be handy for other odd and end things, but I can do without one if I have to.

I grew up using a bandsaw.  Ever since I was a mere lad, I was cutting out toy guns from scraps of wood in my grandfather's basement shop (he was a furniture maker).  I have a pretty nice Sears Craftsman saw, and it cuts pretty well, and I can cut right to my lines.  I wish I had my grandfather's saw.  My uncle has it now, and says I can have it if I want, but it's bigger than mine, and I don't think I'd have room for it.

[northmn]

The Dremmel is great in its place especially for cutting small pins with a cut off tool, and I used it to cut a groove for a sear spring in a lock plate, polishing small areas and that sort of thing.  Its one of those tools that are really handy for what they are good for.  To give hand tools their due, one I use a lot is a hand drill, egg beater type, that works with smaller drill bits.  I use it to get depth in lock mortises quite often.  A machinists square is great for layout work and maintaining center lines.  Theres also a simple center finder for finding the center of the face of a bolt for instance, that is very handy.  Thank you Acer for those little hack saw blade scrapers that you recommended.   I am always making a scraper from one of those now.   As to screwing up, I am an equal opportunity screw up and can do so with hand tools as well as power tools.  There have been days when I have layed the work down and walked away so I don't do more damage.

[George F.]

well this is my 2nd attempt at this, I hit something on the keyboard and it changed my internet name and password. took me two hours to find where and how to fix it.
Power tools are a big time saver. We all use them to some extent. I use a small router for inletting parts on the flat areas after the outline is cut in with a inletting knife. I do the lock plate, side plate, toe plate for getting me down to an even depth. I use a designated router for making the forestock moulding. I screwed a halve dowel on the clear router base offset the amount I want exposed, with a 5/8" cove bit ( the type without a bearing) set to the depth I determined by playing around. The dowel rides in the ramrod groove. I do one side ,then the other. You have to be careful about router side tilt doing this. I use another router for the inletting with a 1/8" straight bit for the lock internals. I also use it for cutting the slots for the ramrod pipe lugs. For that I made another clear plastic template On it I screwed another halved dowel that sits in the ramrod groove. I then cut a slot in the template on the dowels centerline for a router bushing and that is really easy, no worry about breaking through the barrel channel and hitting your chisel on the barrel. "That's How I Do Mine"...    Geo.

[Rich]

I build as a hobby and try to stay away from power tools. I really do not enjoy working with them. I cut my stock blanks with handsaws, hand inlet the barrels with hand tools, etc. I tell myself that the tedious tasks will teach me patience. I do use a drill press, heatgun for the aquafortis, propane torch for soldering and annealing.

[cglynn]

I think it depends on the task.  A neighbor of mine made an ingenious attachment for his plunge router that acts as a double edge guide.  It is clear lexan so you can see through it and has a center line marked on it.  If you take the time to layout a barrel channel, and know how to use a router, then you can get a barrel channel roughed out accurately in a very short time.  For some people, this is desirable.  For others, time spent on a build doesn't matter, so hand tools are the way to go.  Also, the router can never do a swamped barrel.  Perhaps get you close by hogging out most of the material, but hand tools have their place there. 

For some tasks such as inletting a lock or ramrod pipes, I won't touch power tools.  Too much can go wrong too quick.

All in all, its a matter of personal preferance.

Happy building
Chris

[ehoff]

Power tools have there place. It really comes down to personal prefrence. I personally love my power tools, but there are times when they should be locked up.

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

I guess if I were going to be serious about building guns for a living I would use quite a few power tools to speed the process. Unless you can do and sell the high art or have a very espablished reputation it seems that you would have to do a lot of guns in a year if your markup for labor and talent is only 100-300% of the cost of parts.

$600x3 =$1800 or $1200 per gun X 50 guns = $60,000 gross revenue..Raise the prices!!

[karwelis]

ok heres my 2 cents worth, i use no power tools i even have a hand cranked drill press.

karwelis

[George F.]

I think it depends on the task.  A neighbor of mine made an ingenious attachment for his plunge router that acts as a double edge guide.  It is clear lexan so you can see through it and has a center line marked on it.  If you take the time to layout a barrel channel, and know how to use a router, then you can get a barrel channel roughed out accurately in a very short time.  For some people, this is desirable.  For others, time spent on a build doesn't matter, so hand tools are the way to go.  Also, the router can never do a swamped barrel.  Perhaps get you close by hogging out most of the material, but hand tools have their place there. 

For some tasks such as inletting a lock or ramrod pipes, I won't touch power tools.  Too much can go wrong too quick.

All in all, its a matter of personal preferance.

Happy building
Chris

     I have attempted a few swamped barrels with the router. It involves making a template  in two directions, width and depth  so you are cutting in those two directions at once. But with all the different profiles available plus the slight fluctuations not only from barrel makers but even within the same barrel maker that I abandoned the operation. But you can get pretty close . A router, and any power tool for that matter knows one thing  and that's to turn, it's up to the operator to use it in a controlled manner. Even a skilled operator misjudges or has ..."oops"   ...Geo.