Thinking of building/restoring a Brown Bess

[9245]

I’m considering building/restoring an EIC Brown Bess.  The lock, barrel, and ramrod are original, and possibly some other random pieces, but the stock and all the brass parts as well as the lock screws, pins, and a sling swivel are repros.

I’m comfortable cleaning up the original parts and preserving them as well as finishing the wood and polishing the brass, however I am not confident in my ability to properly inlet the stock, correctly locate and drill the pin holes, and fit the modern screws to the original lock plate.  Is there any gunsmith that you can recommend who can do this for me if I send the parts?  Basically I’m good with cleanup, finishing and assembly, but I have to have everything be a drop in part, I cannot do the gunsmithimg.

How much would that work cost to have done?

I already checked with Track of the Wolf and they flat out refused to do the work.

[Mike Brooks]

It would  be cheaper  if  you got a kit from TOTW.

[9245]

It would  be cheaper  if  you got a kit from TOTW.

But also 100% modern.  Sure I could make it look pretty, but I want the history.  Also, last I checked, unless I missed something, Track of The Wolf kits aren’t even correct.  The Brown Bess was a 75 caliber, not a 54.

[tiswell]

The bore on Tracks BB kit measures .775" not .54.

[9245]

The bore on Tracks BB kit measures .775" not .54.

It’s possible I was looking at the wrong thing then, but regardless, if possible I would rather have an original (or partial original) than a repro.

[tiswell]

 I know someone that has restored one. This goes back at least 5 years but the parts he got were in reasonably good condition after they were cleaned up and the bore cleaned up pretty well. It was a serviceable longarm when complete and it sparked well. I can't remember for sure but I think he made a new stock for it.  I do remember that it was heavy and bulky compared to our longrifles.

[Daryl]

The bore on Tracks BB kit measures .775" not .54.

Yes - nominally 10 bore, not 28 bore.
from their add"
Now THAT'S a musket barrel.
This is for their Willits 1746 musket with a wooden ramrod.

"1.464" at the breech tapering to .890" at the muzzle. Smooth bore is .775". Threaded 7/8-14."

[Jim Kibler]

Any restoration by someone with little experience is likely to do more damage than good.  This isn't true all the time, but happens very often.  So many well meaning attempts are actually detrimental.  Just something to consider.

Jim

[Mike Brooks]

It would  be cheaper  if  you got a kit from TOTW.

But also 100% modern.  Sure I could make it look pretty, but I want the history.  Also, last I checked, unless I missed something, Track of The Wolf kits aren’t even correct.  The Brown Bess was a 75 caliber, not a 54.

How much history is in an EIC Bess?  BTW, all of the parts for TOTw bess are cast from originals and the stocks are shaped directly from an original on a duplicarver. Can't get more correct than that.

[louieparker]

9245 Go here. They may have parts ,,, https://www.ima-usa.com/products/original-british-eic-p-1771-brown-bess-flintlock-musket-1770-80-s-dated-marked-lock

[9245]

9245 Go here. They may have parts ,,,https://www.ima-usa.com/products/original-british-eic-p-1771-brown-bess-flintlock-musket-1770-80-s-dated-marked-lock

I already did, IMA is who I am considering ordering from.

Building it myself from one of their kit’s is about $800 cheaper though.

I just need someone to fit the parts.

[9245]

It would  be cheaper  if  you got a kit from TOTW.

But also 100% modern.  Sure I could make it look pretty, but I want the history.  Also, last I checked, unless I missed something, Track of The Wolf kits aren’t even correct.  The Brown Bess was a 75 caliber, not a 54.

How much history is in an EIC Bess?  BTW, all of the parts for TOTw bess are cast from originals and the stocks are shaped directly from an original on a duplicarver. Can't get more correct than that.

You did a very good job making that look antique, assuming it’s one of those Track of the Wolf kits, but it’s still just a repro.

As far as EIC history, sure it’s not as impressive as Empire history, but these muskets would have been involved in pacifying India, and then went to Nepal in 1816? to secure the New British possession, they were empire builders.  I just find the real thing more interesting than reproductions.

**(Edited to comply with ALR rules. Dennis)**

[Mike Brooks]

but it’s still just a repro

[Dale Halterman]

I'm a bit confused. Do you already have the original parts, or are you considering buying them? And are you looking to end up with a gun that it is safe and maybe even accurate to fire?

Dale H

[9245]

I'm a bit confused. Do you already have the original parts, or are you considering buying them? And are you looking to end up with a gun that it is safe and maybe even accurate to fire?

Dale H

No, I do not have them yet, I am considering buying them but before I do I want to know if there is anyone who can do the work and how much that will cost.

And yes, I would like it functional, it’s a smooth bore though so I don’t exactly expect much accuracy, minute of barn from the inside is about what I expect without rifling, pretty much what I would expect from a smoothbore shotgun.

[WKevinD]

And yes, I would like it functional, it’s a smooth bore though so I don’t exactly expect much accuracy, minute of barn from the inside is about what I expect without rifling, pretty much what I would expect from a smoothbore shotgun.

I think you have a load of misinformation and I am of the opinion that you should listen more than assume.

[9245]

To me, the term reproduction has an obvious clear meaning: modern made, not from the period, of no historical importance or interest.

I get what you are saying, and I will agree that some of the reproductions are very nice, beautiful even, but they are still reproductions.  For me I have zero interest in a musket made in 2021, no matter how nice it is, I’ll acknowledge it as art, but not as an original.  It may be made in the same way as the originals, but it’s still a 2021 product, an anachronistic one, but a new made item just the same.  I have no interest in a new made item.

I want this for historical value so a reproduction has zero interest to me.  If I wanted art then sure I would get a new one, if I wanted a shooter, I would get a new one, if I were a reenactor I would get a new one, but I am not looking for any of those things.  Yes I want it to be able to shoot, but that is not what I am getting it for, I am getting it for the history, if it shoots well that is a bonus.

I asked a simple question, while I appreciate the input everyone had been too focussed attempting to convince me to but a repro than actually answering the question.

You may not mind a repro, you may not see the difference between a repro and the real thing, you may feel that a musket made in 2021 is the same thing as one made in 1780 but I do not, I think the one made in 1780 is significantly different than the one made in 2021, it has history, the 2021 does not.  I am looking for history, I can’t get that with a repro, please feel free to disagree with me but do not attempt to convince me to just buy a repro, I do not want one, I am not interested in one, and I will not buy one, I want the original, that’s all.  If I had my druthers I would buy a 100% complete original with no repro parts at all but I cannot afford one, this is a compromise.

If someone went in to the National Archives and removed the original copy of the Constitution and replaced it with a hand made beautifully done near indistinguishable forgery made by a master forger would you claim it was the same as the original?  Or would the original have value to you beyond it’s physical qualities?  I want the original, not the forgery and I want the historic musket not a copy, no matter how well done.

[FlintFan]

The problem here is that you are trying to have it both ways.  You stated the only things original left of the musket are the lock, barrel and ramrod.  You need a new stock made, with possibly all/some new brass furniture.  If the lock and barrel are even still usable (a big IF without having them inspected first) you are basically having a reproduction made of an EIC musket that has a few old parts on it.  If you made a reproduction of a Model T, but used an original steering wheel, spare tire, and muffler it is still a reproduction no matter how much you tried to convince yourself otherwise.  The original parts lose their value (monetarily and historically) when used like that.  It would make far more sense to display the original parts to appreciate and explain their significance, and then have a high quality reproduction made to demonstrate and enjoy along side the original parts.

To answer your question though, if you were able to find someone to build a reproduction musket that included the few original parts (if they were still usable) it would most likely cost you in the neighborhood of $1500-$2500 and maybe a bit more depending if you wanted the entire musket aged to match the old parts.

[9245]

The problem here is that you are trying to have it both ways.  You stated the only things original left of the musket are the lock, barrel and ramrod.  You need a new stock made, with possibly all/some new brass furniture.  If the lock and barrel are even still usable (a big IF without having them inspected first) you are basically having a reproduction made of an EIC musket that has a few old parts on it.  If you made a reproduction of a Model T, but used an original steering wheel, spare tire, and muffler it is still a reproduction no matter how much you tried to convince yourself otherwise.  The original parts lose their value (monetarily and historically) when used like that.  It would make far more sense to display the original parts to appreciate and explain their significance, and then have a high quality reproduction made to demonstrate and enjoy along side the original parts.

To answer your question though, if you were able to find someone to build a reproduction musket that included the few original parts (if they were still usable) it would most likely cost you in the neighborhood of $1500-$2500 and maybe a bit more depending if you wanted the entire musket aged to match the old parts.

It’s one of the IMA “kits” you can see for yourself on their site what I’m talking about, I’ve watched some video reviews of those too and it appears most people get the forstock too and the brass parts with the trigger and trigger guard hit or miss.  My thought process would be to attempt to fit the original brass and replace the repro stuff if possible.

IMA also has a full stocked version which I would prefer, but after talking to them on the phone they told me that all the “may be missing” parts are pretty much guaranteed to be missing, which would include the trigger guard.  I just assumed it would be easier to get the kit than to attempt to track down a trigger guard that just happened to fit the stock.

To my mind the only thing that would really be repro would be the stock, butt plate, and a random assortment of the brass.

I am having an issue imagining simply inletting an included stock and fitting screws as a $1500+ dollar job though, is there something I’m missing?

I’ve also considered the 1853 Enfield’s they have, it would be cheaper and appears far simpler, but they just don’t interest me as much as the Brown Bess does, I’m not sure why.  I looked at the Brunswick’s too and those honestly interest me almost more than both from a technological point of view however my understanding that finding belted balls or molds for belted balls was near impossible and that the bores differ from each other greatly.  Were I anle to get a decent price mold though that might actually go to the top of the list.

[Mike Brooks]

To my mind the only thing that would really be repro would be the stock, butt plate, and a random assortment of the brass.

You will end up with a restocked Barrel and lock, This would be called  a repop.  George Washington's hatchet has been in my family since 1800. The handle has been replaced 3 times and the head twice, but it's still George's hatchet....
.

I am having an issue imagining simply inletting an included stock and fitting screws as a $1500+ dollar job though, is there something I’m missing?

Well then simply stock up a gun around a bunch of old junk parts and you won't have any trouble imagining any more.

NEXT!

[fahnenschmied]

"simply inletting a stock" - aint so easy, especially if you are trying to hit already drilled holes in a barrel underlug.  You won't find anyone to do it for 100 bucks. A thousand would find you some takers, but you could learn to do it yourself. if you wanted to be cheap.

[Daryl]

Taylor "refurbished" a couple Brown Bess' in the past for local folks. One, he reconverted to flint from cap-lock, seems to me. Both of these were about .800 cal.
as near as we/he could measure.

[Niall]

I’ve also considered the 1853 Enfield’s they have, it would be cheaper and appears far simpler, but they just don’t interest me as much as the Brown Bess does, I’m not sure why.  I looked at the Brunswick’s too and those honestly interest me almost more than both from a technological point of view however my understanding that finding belted balls or molds for belted balls was near impossible and that the bores differ from each other greatly.  Were I anle to get a decent price mold though that might actually go to the top of the list.

Well get yourself a 'Brunswick' type so; belted ball  moulds are readily available in whatever size you want, talk to these people and they'll advise you how to size it   https://www.ballmoulds.com/product/belted-ball-moulds/

[RAT]

Back in 1999 I had a badly stocked reproduction rifle "re-stocked" by a well regarded muzzleloading gunsmith. The re-stock cost me $3,500. "Re-stock" is just another word for stocking, making, or building a gun. It takes the same amount of time to stock new parts as old parts.

Some makers will build a modern kit rifle in the $1,000-$2,000 range. Keep in mind that the kit will cost you another $800-$1,000. A new made muzzleloading rifle from most of the well known makers today will cost around $3,500-$4,500. That's for a fairly plain gun... not a highly inlaid or engraved gun.

I hate to break the news to you but that's the real world prices. Heck... a modern factory made cartridge gun runs around $1,000 today for anything decent.