Original or repaired?

[GaryJ]

A few weeks ago I visited a friend who has an 18th century rifle that has been passed down through his family.  I did not get the opportunity to examine it thoroughly except to see it on the wall.  The curious part was the forestock wood under the barrel.  I don’t have pictures but I’ll try to describe it.  From the muzzle to the ram rod hole, the front forestock is only under the bottom facet of the barrel.  In other words, it doesn’t rap up around the sides.  At first, I thought it was a repair because the ramrod pipe at the entrance to the ram rod hole extends up the side of the wood to the barrel and hides the wood.

While I was down in either Jamestown or Mount Vernon – I don’t remember which -  I saw a musket that looked to have similar design with a piece of metal that ran down the bottom of the barrel  to hold the ram rod pipes.  Now I’m not sure if the original was a repair or designed that way.  Any opinions?  I have never seen a rifle build this way.

I don’t know the history of the rifle but it was converted to percussion at some point.  It looked to me to resemble a Lancaster in the butt area or perhaps a southern style – no real carvings that I could see, I don’t think it had a full side plate.  The next time I see it I’ll take pictures but that won’t be for quite a while.  I suggested to the owner that we build a replica of it to make sure it was preserved for the future.  He was going to look up the family history which he has put away so I’m waiting to hear more. 

[Acer Saccharum]

Sounds like a wooden under rib. That could be original, or, more likely, as part of a later conversion to percussion. Need pictures.

[mr. no gold]

In my experience with these 'half stock' rifles it seems to be that when the forestock broke during the period of use, it would be trimmed (often capped off) and a metal rib of iron or brass pinned (or even soldered) to the bottom flat of the barrel to carrry the ramrod.
In New England, this situation was sometimes remedied by adding a forestock, perhaps taken from another gun or newly made for the purpose. Otherwise, the repair was the standard wood or metal rip treatment. Many guns, some early, appear to have been made as half stocks. I do not recall seeing a PA rifle with a scabbed on forestock though some must exist.
Photos would be a great help in determining the nature of the pieces you have described.
Dick

[Randy Hedden]

I have to agree with Acer.  It sounds like a wood under rib that may or may not have been added later because of a damaged forearm or as part of the conversion to percussion ignition.

Randy Hedden

[mr. no gold]

Just a small question, but what connection is there between cutting a full stocked rifle down to a half stock as part of the percussion conversion?
Dick

[Randy Hedden]

Perhaps fore stocks on long rifles were cut back in later years to mimic the half stock style of the period?? Or possibly at the same time that the newer percussion ignition was installed??  Or it could have been cut back as a quick repair of a badly damaged forestock??  Sometimes the reason things were done in the past are just supposition, because we really don't know how the person doing it was thinking or what the current trend was at the time of the dirty deed. 

Why would we assume that the fore stock was cut back for any of the above reasons??  It is all just conjecture at this point. Of course we don't know, but  there is a possibility that this gun was originally made in percussion, with a half stock and a wood under rib.

pictures would help immensely.

Randy Hedden.

[T.C.Albert]

Was the McKee half stock mountain rifle fitted with a wooden under rib???
I was thinking so but cant remember for sure now..
TCA

[GaryJ]

Thanks for the replies.  A wooden under rib is how I describe would it but I had not seen one before.  Unfortunately, the rifle resides in Williamsburg and I reside in PA.  So, I won't see it for a while to take pictures.  When I saw it, it was hanging on the wall, straped up good so it would not come down and I had a broken leg and no camera so I really couldn't get close to examine it real well.  When I get back I'll take pictures.

The gentleman who owns it has the history of the rifle put away and will look it up.  He believes it may have been  pre-revolutionary war and was converted from flint.  I was more excited than he was to see it.  I just finished building my first rifle so I am no expert at all but I know enough to realize this was unique and it will take someone with a lot more experience than me to determine the history.  I'm sure if an expert were to look it over, they could figure out if it was built that way or repaired.  If only this gun could talk - I'm sure it has some stories.

[tom patton]

The first muzzle loader I ever bought was a half stock iron mounted probably East Tennessee rifle for which I paid $25.00 or $35.00 from an antique shop in Greeneville,Tennessee in 1962.As I recall it was originally built as a half stock. The barrel was about 36" long and this appeared to be the original length. As I recall the under rib had one or maybe two thimbles attached to it. I have seen a number of guns like this both original and with shortened barrels and added ribs both metal and wood.The most common guns with this treatment were old CW muskets shortened and with the barrels bored out to make  shotguns often with only one thimble.
  I haven' t seen any pictures of this gun so cannot venture an opinion other than what I have said above. I would not attempt to date the gun without pictures since I have seen a lot of "early" rifles that turned out to be old muskets or even shotguns. Family history in this area often seems to be emotional rather than factual so I look foward to seeing pictures of this gun.
Tom Patton