TRS 1776 Rifle build

[Penske]

I am progressing to installing the nose cap on the rifle. My question is how in the nose cap fixed to the stock on this rifle? Drawings provide no details. I have seen an original Hirst rifle that was a private purchase and it had the screw holding the cap to the stock entering from the bottom. The pictures I have of an original ordnance rifle don't show this detail in the photo. The ram rod blocks the view. There does not seem to be much wood to anchor a screw entering from the bottom. I would assume the screw should enter from the wood side and screw into the metal of the cap. Any help would be appreciated. I know Mike Brooks has done a few of these so maybe he can provide some thoughts.
Regards,
Peter

[deepcreekdale]

I am not sure on this particular model but generally at that time nose caps were riveted in place, not screwed

[emmagee]

Just checked my TRS 1776 and it is riveted from the barrel channel side. It is barely visible from the ramrod channel side.

[smart dog]

Hi Peter,
A good and secure way to rivet it is to use a flat head machine screw and drill and tap the muzzle cap for the screw.  Countersink the head into the bottom of barrel channel.  Then install the cap and screw it into place until you are sure everything is as you want it before attaching the cap permanently.  Then when you are ready to permanently install the cap, countersink the screw hole on the outside of the cap, install the cap and screw, and peen the end of the screw into the countersink forming a rivet.  File the excess flush.

dave

[Ken G]

Right or wrong I have always done it exactly as Dave described. 

Ken

[smylee grouch]

I have done 2 or 3 with copper rivets made with a small piece of #12 copper wire but then started using a brass screw as noted. The screw was easier .

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I like to use copper harness rivets.  the heads of these rivets are thin and large, so they can be filed into a square from the round, and indexed so they go in the same each time.  They are dead soft, and mushroom nicely into a gentle countersink in the brass nose piece, while the square head rests hard against the barrel inside the channel.

[deepcreekdale]

I use copper carpet tacks from Lowes/Home Depot. They do need a little filing to make the shank round and clean up the head as they are cut nails but that is less than a minutes work. Other than that, I do exactly as Taylor does. The copper is so soft, it only takes a few gentle taps. The whole process is quick, easy and foolproof. Copper riveting is the historically correct way to do it if that matters to you. Plus, the barely visible copper on the brass cap tells the world you like to do things the old fashioned way!

[smart dog]

Hi Guys,
Not to be a stick in the mud but the muzzle cap was originally iron and attached with an iron screw.  There are so few pattern 1776 rifles still around that it is difficult to generalized about them.  However, I just read Bailey again about the pattern 1776.  The iron cap was held on by an iron  screw from the barrel channel.  On British muskets, nose caps were either screwed on with iron screws or riveted with iron or brass rivets.  I do not believe they ever used copper rivets even when attaching sheet brass nose bands at the regimental level.

dave

[Penske]

Thanks all for the replies. I think what Dave is saying makes sense and that will be the route I will use. I will use an iron screw as I know all British ordnance weapons used either a iron or brass screw . This model uses an iron nose cap so an iron screw or riviet will hide the best. Thanks again to all the forum members who share their knowledge and experience.
Regards,
Peter

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

In my description of using a copper rivet, I was digressing from the detail of the thread itself, and referring to a more general nose cap attachment.  I apologize for the diversion.  Dave is correct, when it comes to the 1776 rifle.  And there are many examples of American longrifles where a machine screw was used as the attachment device, too.

[Mike Brooks]

Hi Guys,
Not to be a stick in the mud but the muzzle cap was originally iron and attached with an iron screw.  There are so few pattern 1776 rifles still around that it is difficult to generalized about them.  However, I just read Bailey again about the pattern 1776.  The iron cap was held on by an iron  screw from the barrel channel.  On British muskets, nose caps were either screwed on with iron screws or riveted with iron or brass rivets.  I do not believe they ever used copper rivets even when attaching sheet brass nose bands at the regimental level.

dave

Heretic....

[Mike Brooks]

In my description of using a copper rivet, I was digressing from the detail of the thread itself, and referring to a more general nose cap attachment.  I apologize for the diversion.  Dave is correct, when it comes to the 1776 rifle.  And there are many examples of American longrifles where a machine screw was used as the attachment device, too.

Digresser!

[smart dog]

Hi Mikey,
Not much of a heretic.  I am more of a hermit right now.  Thank God for my dog.

dave

[Daryl]

LOL

[satwel]

How do those of you who use brass screws to attach muzzle caps prevent the brass from work hardening when you peen it? I have had little success getting the brass to fill the counter sunk recess in the muzzle cap. After about half a dozen taps the brass becomes too hard to expand.

[Mike Brooks]

How do those of you who use brass screws to attach muzzle caps prevent the brass from work hardening when you peen it? I have had little success getting the brass to fill the counter sunk recess in the muzzle cap. After about half a dozen taps the brass becomes too hard to expand.

That's why most don't use brass screws for that. Or anything else.

[smart dog]

How do those of you who use brass screws to attach muzzle caps prevent the brass from work hardening when you peen it? I have had little success getting the brass to fill the counter sunk recess in the muzzle cap. After about half a dozen taps the brass becomes too hard to expand.

Hi,
I have little trouble.  First, my countersink is small.  You don't need much of a collar around the hole to hold the cap particularly if you are threading the brass into it.  Second, I leave just enough excess brass shank to fill the hole.  A 1/16" is enough and after a half dozen blows it is filled.

dave