Suggestion needed make hinge-steel

[FALout]

I’ve never made my own patch box, but have read how to do it, figured with brass it can’t be too bad.  But on my newest project I’m looking at making one out of iron (steel).  My biggest concern is bending to form the hinge itself, was wondering if it can be done cold or will I need to do it heated red hot?  Also the thickness of material that would be easier to do this with, got some different sheet steel to work with and can get some more if need be.  I’ve made some Hawkens rifles with patchboxs but didn’t form the hinges like on earlier style rifles.  Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
Bob

[heinz]

I use 18 gauge or 16 gauge.  I start by bending the knuckle section up at a right handle to the box lid or leaf. I then put a bend in the knuckle using a rod, the size of the pintel I will be using, as a mandrel.  Then roll the knuckle all the way around the pintle and tap it down tight.  You can use red heat to bend it if you want to.   Make the knuckle on the leaf the same way.  I make the knuckle about a half-inch longer than the join so it overlaps the lid, or leaf as the case may be. 

The next part requires you put a slight arch in the lid and the pintle.  How much depend on the look you want.  Butt the leaf and lid together and mark for your knuckle cuts.  Be careful to make sure you keep two outside knuckles on one piece, usually the lid.  Make your saw cut perpendicular to the tangent of the arc at cut.  This will allow the hinge to work even though it is bent slightly.  Saw and file out the lid then fit the leaf to the lid. 

[Scota4570]

I just made a southern style one for a SMR rifle.   I used ~0.060" (16 ga ?) sheet steel that was sold at a hardware store.  It was all bent cold.  It worked fine.  I suppose it would be a good idea to bend a sample for a while and see when it fatigues and breaks before trying to make a patchbox out of it. 

Thinner material will be easier to bend.  Thicker will give more material to file and polish.  The 16 ga works fine for me.  Mine are thicker than the ones Track sells.  I did make some some form tools to make  a perfect U-shape to accommodate the 1/16" hinge pin. I then bent the lolly pop shape in a smooth jaw vice.  I make the dome shape with a wooden die and a hydrolic press.   I made a bending mandrill out of an old barrel scrap to take a particular kink out.  I found that doing the bending and forming in a planned out way works much better than just beating it silly. 

 

[FALout]

Thanks guys.  I’m gonna make a tool like the one shown in the tutorial forum from Acer’s post to see how that works for this.  I’m kinda getting the cart in front of the horse here since I don’t even have the barrel in the stock yet, but I like to have everything ready when starting a project.  Cutting the knuckles will have to wait till stock is shaped, same with shaping the patch box to size.  Hope I can get to this over the weekend.
Bob

[Mark Elliott]

I bend mine cold.  In fact no annealing is required as is with brass.   I do use thinner material in steel.   I use .050" sheet in steel and about .060" in brass.  My process is exactly the same, brass or steel.

[Scota4570]

Here are some pictures that may help.  Something to keep in mind, if you want it to open 180* you need to set the knuckle high.  I wanted it sleek so I left the knuckle roughly on center.  The lid opens to about 100*.  I think that is enough.  I was also able to file the edges of the knuckles almost flush with the wood.  The spring is probably not traditional.  I takes no space in the box, which I like.  I do use my old milling machine for this kind of thing.  I want it to be done neatly, accurately, relatively quickly. 

[BOB HILL]

I also form my steel hinges cold. I have been using the hood off of an early bronco for years. It's a little thinner than 1/16 and very malleable.
Bob

[Dennis Glazener]

I also form my steel hinges cold. I have been using the hood off of an early bronco for years. It's a little thinner than 1/16 and very malleable.
Bob

Bob,
Ha ha I have been using left over patch panels from a 67 GT Mustang and a 57 Cevy both work well. Made one early iron 3 piece patchbox & side plate from a piece of original 57 Chevy skn. It was almost exactly the same thickness as the original I was copying. Hand just the right amount of "patina"
Dennis

[FALout]

Well I don’t have any body panels laying around, but do have quite a bit of sheet material from other projects that are the right thickness.  Tonight I started inletting the barrel, hope that won’t take too long.
Bob

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

The critical part when making a patchbox hinge, is the tube that will become the knuckles, on the lid and on the head.  My dear friend Tom Curran made me a lid forming tool that is easy to deplicate, and since I received the one in the pictures below, I have made others with wider and narrower bases.
The pin which holds the lid to the head is usually 1/16".  So select a piece of steel that is wide enough to form the full width of the box you are creating and thick enough that it won't bend, ie:  1/4" or thicker.  Now create another piece of steel out of 1/16" sheet stock that is the full length of the width of the plate you have selected, and a little more than 1/16" wider than the plate is thick.  With files, round over one edge of this little plate to simulate a hjinge pin.  Clean the end of the plate well (file true) and one side of the little strip you've just made, flux and silver solder the two together so that 1/16" protrudes above the plate, as in the example in the picture below.
To make the hinge on your patchbox stock, first bend the lid metal at 90 degrees using your machinist's vise to create a sharp bend.  Place the bent steel on top of the plate you've just made so that the shorter bent up part is right up against the raised 1/16" bead, clamp the two together in your vise right up against the bend, and with a block of wood and a hammer, bend the shorter section over the bead.  You now have your lid with a hinge knuckle started.  Remove the two from the vise, place a 1/16" music wire pin in the hinge you've started, and bend the tab down over it, finishing the hinge knuckle.  It is a good idea to clean the inside face of the lid at the hinge area before you bend it, so that you have the option of silver soldering the tab down against the underside of the lid.  Alternately, rivets will secure the tab.  I've seen boxes that were not joined, and they always appear to be unfinished to my eye.
Now, made the head part of the hinge.
Mark out the knuckles of the head and lid, and with saws and files, remove the metal that is required.  Here's an example...a steel patchbox on a Hawken rifle.

[FALout]

Thanks Taylor, those knuckles look perfectly cut and fitted.
Bob

[Scota4570]

I like the form block to make the hinge tube.  I'll have to make one. 

To bring the metal back parallel on the back side of the hinge do you simply install a pin and bring it around free hand? 

I was thinking a die block with the correct hinge tube OD would be helpful to keep the tube  neat. 

I Have been working of the instructions in Buchele's book.  The swage and die blocks seem more suited to the way I work. 

[Ken G]

I'm thinking someone with a milling machine might be able to sell a few of those hinge forming blocks.  hint, hint. 

Cheers,
Ken