Author Topic: Help for 2 Piece Wood Patchbox Lid  (Read 3291 times)

Offline TommyG

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Help for 2 Piece Wood Patchbox Lid
« on: January 26, 2019, 05:18:00 AM »
This is a method I use for 2 piece wood patchbox lids that I thought I would share with all you two piece builders.  The procedure is the same as far as basic patchbox construction.  The assembly procedure is where I use a different method.  I could never understand how you are supposed to glue two flat pieces of wood together without some way of indexing them to one another.  They are going to slide and move all over not to mention the glue squeeze out, creating a mess at best.  I recently finished one, and snapped some pics as I went.  Hope this helps someone.  TommyG

First the basics, fit your base.  Make sure it is level in both directions.





Create a center line and a few witness marks on your lid.  Set your lid in place.  Add corresponding witness marks to the stock.


Next, layout and drill (4) 1/16” holes in the base.  I put these about ¼” in from the ways and far enough in from the end as to not interfere with the end cap screws.  The base is almost ¼” thick, I drill these holes 3/16” deep.  Also, lay out a pencil line 1/8” in from each side and the front.


Take a parting tool(a small veiner would probably work too), and cut a trough following your pencil lines.  This is a glue trough that will prevent any glue from entering the dovetailed ways.


Take some 1/16” dia. wire(I use welding wire), and grind a point on it.


Cut the wire to length so that you have the point plus 3/16”.  You will need 4 of these.


Insert your pins into the base.  It should look like this, pretty much only the points exposed.


Place your lid onto the base aligning the witness marks.  Press firmly.  You want to get the points to make good penetration into the lid.  I avoid using a mallet as it could jump the lid out of position.


Now I remove the base/lid as one piece, keeping them together with finger pressure and slide them into the vise.  Clamp the two together.  You could use a hand clamp here also.


Remove from the vise.  Separate the lid and base.  You should see (4) holes where the points from the base penetrated the lid.  Spread a layer of glue onto the base.  I use Titebond 3.


Assemble the base and lid.  Clamp overnite.  Again, I use my vise, but clamps will work also.


Remove from clamping.  See how it fits.


There is no glue squeeze out, but the glue will swell the base a bit requiring a bit of fitting.  I cut my dovetails at 15˚ so I made up a 15˚ scraper with a polished base from an old sawblade. 


Finished fitting with back plate.  Ready to shape.


lkipps54

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Re: Help for 2 Piece Wood Patchbox Lid
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2019, 05:51:02 AM »
Looks like a sure fire way to me, wished you had posted this couple weeks ago, mine would have been easier.

Offline Mauser06

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Re: Help for 2 Piece Wood Patchbox Lid
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2019, 07:25:02 AM »
Good tips!!  I appreciate it!   The first one I did went about like you said....lol.  Glue oozing and thenlid slipping from it's place...a couple minutes in the prep you did say es a good bit of mess and aggravation. 

Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Help for 2 Piece Wood Patchbox Lid
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2019, 06:33:05 PM »
Pretty clever. I have been using mostly 2 piece boxes for 39 years. I've done some one piece but I have gotten so used to the way I do it it's hard to break away.
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Offline P.W.Berkuta

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Re: Help for 2 Piece Wood Patchbox Lid
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2019, 08:05:45 PM »
Very well done tutorial with step by step pictures that explain everything ;) - thanks for posting this 8).
"The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt the person who is doing it." - Chinese proverb

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: Help for 2 Piece Wood Patchbox Lid
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2019, 08:28:19 PM »
Well laid out tutorial.  Preventative measures completed beforehand go a long way to eliminating frustration, hair/beard pulling, and clothes rending after it's too late.  Looks like an interesting early rifle, and I see you suffer from drying cracks in the winter, just like I do.
D. Taylor Sapergia
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Offline Dave B

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Re: Help for 2 Piece Wood Patchbox Lid
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2019, 09:51:57 PM »
The one of biggest advantages to doing this brilliant way is that if you have grain you are trying to match up you can dial it in where you want it exactly. Very cool thanks for sharing it with us.
Dave Blaisdell

Offline TommyG

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Re: Help for 2 Piece Wood Patchbox Lid
« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2019, 12:46:39 AM »
Hey Guys, thanks for the feedback.  I often thought to myself that if there was any way I could give back to this group for all the knowledge and techniques shared here, I would.

Taylor - Yes, it is an early Albrecht gun with a short, 26" Rayl barrel in .58.  It's for my son(21 yr. old eyes).  We do a lot of late season whitetail hunting in thick cover, so we'll see how it works.  I based the architecture off RCA 43, just shortened things up a bit.  I'm having a lot of fun with this build(but then again, I seem to have a lot of fun with every build).  I'll be sure to post some pics when finished.  And yes, those finger splits hurt like the devil!!!!

Dave B - Your are exactly right with the grain matching.  I should have mentioned that in the tutorial.  I actually cut the lid from a 3" wide piece I had left over.  Once the pins are in the base, I wet the wood on stock & lid blank with DA spray, orient the curl, then mark to cut out the lid.

Offline Greg Pennell

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Re: Help for 2 Piece Wood Patchbox Lid
« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2019, 03:51:05 AM »
Neat tip...I’m filing this one away for future reference!

Greg
“Let your gun therefore be the constant companion of your walks” Thomas Jefferson

Offline tfornicola

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Re: Help for 2 Piece Wood Patchbox Lid
« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2021, 09:03:28 PM »
TommyG, Good info on this topic, the 4 pins take the guess work out , better than lining up pencil lines with the glue on. To match curl direction, I lay a thin, clear sheet of plastic over butt area, mark box location and also curl direction. Lay plastic sheet over box cover material and move around to match. It works for me. Tom

Offline Tim Crosby

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Re: Help for 2 Piece Wood Patchbox Lid
« Reply #10 on: September 04, 2021, 09:55:15 PM »
 FWIW  Super Glue will take care of those cracked fingers. I've been using it for years. A littler burning sensation at first but it seals then up.

   Tim C.

Offline bob in the woods

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Re: Help for 2 Piece Wood Patchbox Lid
« Reply #11 on: September 04, 2021, 10:30:59 PM »
FWIW  Super Glue will take care of those cracked fingers. I've been using it for years. A littler burning sensation at first but it seals then up.

   Tim C.
Super glue will take care of them, and it works for sealing up cuts too. Like stitches in a tube !!
Bear oil will prevent those cracks BTW

Offline flinchrocket

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Re: Help for 2 Piece Wood Patchbox Lid
« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2021, 10:55:36 PM »
Corn Huskers Lotion will work on dry cracked hands. If you don’t happen to have any bear oil.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2021, 12:02:01 AM by flinchrocket »

Offline rich pierce

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Re: Help for 2 Piece Wood Patchbox Lid
« Reply #13 on: September 05, 2021, 12:05:19 AM »
I did one two piece box and had trouble getting it to sit down nice. This looks helpful but I think I’d skid 0.020” or so off the dovetail piece before glueing. Sure looks like it’s working for you nicely.
Andover, Vermont

Offline smart dog

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Re: Help for 2 Piece Wood Patchbox Lid
« Reply #14 on: September 05, 2021, 01:08:31 AM »
Hi,
Nice Tommy.  I filed that one away for future use.  Well done!

dave
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Offline Daniel Coats

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Re: Help for 2 Piece Wood Patchbox Lid
« Reply #15 on: September 05, 2021, 01:43:37 AM »
I was caping out an antelope in the field and gave myself a nasty cut one time. I held a tube of superglue in my teeth and sealed up the cut between my pinched fingers. Worked out so well I still carry super glue to this day.
Dan

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Birddog6

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Re: Help for 2 Piece Wood Patchbox Lid
« Reply #16 on: September 05, 2021, 03:11:45 PM »
I secure my 2 piece lids basically the same, except I use 4 tiny wood dowels instead of the wire brads.
You can buy Qtips with wood shafts, they work ideal. Plus if you carve the lid there is no chance of cutting
into the brad.
I don't use the glue trough (tho it's a good idea), I use just enough glue that you barely see it at the edges
& then clean the excess off with wet then dry Qtip, thus no mess.
There are several ways of attacking this lil task.  Have also seen flathead screws from inside. And flathead
screws from outside then engraved, and also flathead screws from outside then covered with a inlay.
I think the main thing is it is glued good & clamped well til it is dry.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2021, 03:15:16 PM by D. Keith Lisle »

Offline Dan Fruth

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Re: Help for 2 Piece Wood Patchbox Lid
« Reply #17 on: September 05, 2021, 05:59:20 PM »
You got it goin on...I do it the same way...small brads to mark the visible part of the lid...
The old Quaker, "We are non-resistance friend, but ye are standing where I intend to shoot!"

Offline rmnc3r

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Re: Help for 2 Piece Wood Patchbox Lid
« Reply #18 on: September 07, 2021, 01:32:10 AM »
FWIW  Super Glue will take care of those cracked fingers. I've been using it for years. A littler burning sensation at first but it seals then up.

   Tim C.
Super glue will take care of them, and it works for sealing up cuts too. Like stitches in a tube !!
Bear oil will prevent those cracks BTW

I recently watched this NHK Report on renowned Japanese Swordsmith, Yoshindo Yoshihara. Interestingly, He uses Super Glue to keep his fingernails from cracking as well.   

Blacksmiths and others will surely find this an interesting vid

https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/ondemand/video/4003161/

I typically make 2 pc PBs, similarly, but I don't fret too much over grain matching and just glue and clamp an oversized top to the inletted bottom piece,  off the gun.  Then, once dried, clamp the assembly to a board and shape.
I've never used glue troughs. I'm gonna incorporate that technique, here on in. Great Idea!
« Last Edit: September 07, 2021, 01:50:40 AM by rmnc3r »

Offline Craig Wilcox

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Re: Help for 2 Piece Wood Patchbox Lid
« Reply #19 on: September 08, 2021, 09:55:31 PM »
Bag Balm for those cracked hands!  Available at most feed stores, especially if you have a lot of dairy farms in the area.

Makes your hands about as soft as a baby's - well, you know what!

The tips on creating a wooden patch box are great, and for me, well in time.  I had a piece of English walnut selected, but Ron Scott has the top piece cast in brass.  Complete with bosses for screws.
Craig Wilcox
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Offline Cory Joe Stewart

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Re: Help for 2 Piece Wood Patchbox Lid
« Reply #20 on: September 09, 2021, 07:25:16 PM »
Looks great.  Instead of the wire pins I have used tooth picks to keep it from sliding around. 

Cory Joe