Smart Dog Was Right !.....Again

[davec2]

A pistol by Louis Smith just showed up on the Contemporary Makers Blog.  Here is a link.....

http://contemporarymakers.blogspot.com/2021/09/pistol-by-louis-smith-of-johnson-city.html

Does anyone know what lock Louis used on this one ?

Thanks

Dave C

[Shopdog]

Looks like a John Twigg London Fowling Gun  by R. E. Davis  if I were to make an educated guess (isn't saying much though as my guesswork got a dodgy diploma!)

[smart dog]

Hi Dave,
I think it may be one of the locks by John Clark of Canada.  He died a few years ago and I don't think the locks have been produced for quite a few years.

dave

[J. Talbert]

I can’t offer an answer to which lock this is, but I’m not sure it’s either of the two mentioned.  Did Clark make any locks other than the Durs Egg?  Because I don’t think the lock on this pistol is that one anyway.  Of course I could be wrong, but Clark’s Durs Egg Lock is a dead ringer for the L&R Durs Egg.  They’re both copied from the same original.

I’d like to know what lock this is also, I t’s certainly nice looking.

Jeff

[smart dog]

Hi Jeff,
You are right.  I searched for images of his lock and all the ones I could find were just like the L&R Durs Egg lock.  I am at a loss like everyone else.

dave 

[davec2]

Thanks for the inputs.....does anyone know how to get in touch with Louis ?

[flinchrocket]

I believe that he passed in 2000.

[davec2]

I am interested ....well....because I am lazy.  A while back I posted the following.....

I did some modifications to a Chambers Late Ketland for a half stock rifle I have in the works.  Thought I would show you what I did to modify the look the lock.

First, the "hook" at the top of the existing cock turns backward.  Just personal preference, but I like the look of the "hook" turning forward.  Harder to do, but it looks more graceful to me.  Here is how the cock came on the lock:



I TIG welded a blob of steel on the top of the cock.  Here is how it looked before filing.....the look I was going for is shown at the right on another cock I made many years ago:



After a little grinding and filing, it came out like this:



I like the look of a more "waterproof" pan, so I decided to modify that as well.  Here is the pan the way the lock comes....



After some filing and polishing, it looks like this.....



I don't have all the parts done yet, but this photo shows the plate with the modified pan and the cock with the altered curl at the top......

But I really like the molding on the lock plate and the cock....and here comes the lazy part.....I really don't feel like hand cutting and finishing all the moldings.  Hence I am looking to see if the lock Louis used is available anywhere. 

I have discovered late in my life that necessity is not as much "the mother of invention" as is abject laziness...

[ScottH]

I don't have much to add, but Kibler's late Ketland is the smallest lock in this style at 4.75" long. According to the various websites it is shorter than Chambers, shorter than the L&R Durrs Egg. You would still have to modify some things to get it looking like the lock Louis used on the pistol in the original post from what I can see. 

[flinchrocket]

It would not surprise me if the lock is an antique that he restored. If you look close you can see some pitting in different places.
http://contemporarymakers.blogspot.com/2018/03/the-johnson-city-school-of-gunsmithing.html?m=1

[smart dog]

Hi Dave,
Gosh, that molding is not that hard to do and really doesn't take long at all.  Using a square graver, I cut the lower ledge of the bevel.  I run the graver around the lock to cut a deep line and then do it again but turn the graver so one side flat cuts the line into a flat shoulder.  I sometimes use rifflers to smooth and flatten it if my cuts were uneven.  Then I just cut a fine line at the top of the bevel at the edge of the top of the plate. That may sound hard but it really is not particularly for someone as skilled as you are. It is also not hard to give the bevel itself a slight convex shape (ovalo) using a riffler file.  It does not take much filing and does not take long.

dave

[Bob Roller]

What ever it is it's a good looking lock and I assume it has no mechanism that actually makes it a lock.
Bob Roller

[davec2]

David,

OK....you talked me into it !  The way you describe it, I think I can make that happen.  I'll post the results.

Thanks for the encouragement.

Dave C

[J. Talbert]

I’m sure the results will be excellent!

I’d put money on it. 

Jeff

[davec2]

OK David......I went ahead with cutting molding on the lock I had been modifying based on your description of how to do it.  I can say that you were correct again.....it was not as hard as I had thought it might be.  It took me a couple of hours to do both the lock plate and the cock, but the job was not difficult... just a little tedious.  I haven't finished all the polishing yet, but the bulk of the shaping and smoothing is complete.  Both the plate and the cock started off with just a straight 45 degree bevel on the edges.  Here are some pictures......

The plate before starting to cut the molding......



The cock before cutting the molding......



Results.......

















David, thanks again for the encouragement to give it a try !!!

[smart dog]

That is spectacular David!!  Well done.  It really looks English.

dave

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Pure nift!!

[davec2]

I think I made it more complicated than it needed to be.  When I look at the picture of an original lock below, I think the molding was just cut with the flat lower lip and then a single lighter line at the top of a bevel (as you described, David).  I spent most of the time on this sculpting the space between the two lines into a convex shape.....harder to smooth and polish as well and I think the molding below looks just as good.  I also like the way the molding is interrupted on this original cock.  I should have looked at this picture again before i jumped in but, as luck would have it, I didn't.  Oh well, good learning experience all the way around.

[smart dog]

Hi Dave,
Here are a couple I did in the last few years.  The upper one is a Davis late English flintlock and the lower photos are of a small Siler I converted to English.





I kind of like cutting the borders and have done enough of them that it goes pretty quick.

dave

[J. Talbert]

I’m sure the results will be excellent!

I’d put money on it. 

Jeff

Well Smart Dog wasn’t the only one that was right. 

Just sayin…..

[davec2]

You are correct, Jeff !  My apologies...

[hen]

The cock on the Cooper lock is super and is made so by the discontinuity of the bevel near the base of the top jaw screw. This is a feature which is rarely reproduced and is a characteristic of  most English cocks of the period.

Hen.

[smart dog]

Hi Hen,
It really depends on the maker.  I've never seen that molding treatment on flint cocks by Twigg or Wogdon.  They are all like the photos below of exact copies of Twigg and Wogdon locks.






dave

[hen]

Hi Dave,
I must admit that the feature I mentioned usually appears on cocks which have a backward-curling spur, rather than the earlier forward-curling spur as used by Twigg and his compatriots.

Hen.

[Bob Roller]

Hi Dave,
I think it may be one of the locks by John Clark of Canada.  He died a few years ago and I don't think the locks have been produced for quite a few years.

dave

All the Canadian Clark locks I saw and used as platforms had his name in script on the outside of the plate.
He could have made a plain one like this but I never got one set of parts like that.
   Take A LOOK AT THE FLASH HOLE LOCATION ON THAT PISTOL. That should answer the question on location
in relation to the pan.
Bob Roller