Author Topic: Gun finishing  (Read 6796 times)

Offline Acer Saccharum

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 19311
    • Thomas  A Curran
Gun finishing
« on: September 29, 2009, 10:17:33 PM »
I see Mark Wheland does really nice and soft finishes on his guns. Chuck Edwards does an ultra nice finish on this gun: http://contemporarymakers.blogspot.com/2009/09/chuck-edwards-gun-with-curt-lyles-bag.html

The House Brothers, Ian Pratt and Mike Brooks and Allen Martin do a nice soft 'old' look that I want to try some version on my next gun.

There is the softness of the wood and metal, but there is also the subtlies of the coloring.

The question is HOW DO THEY DO IT?

Tom Curran's web site : http://monstermachineshop.net
Ramrod scrapers are all sold out.

Offline Tom Currie

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1294
Re: Gun finishing
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2009, 10:32:31 PM »
I talked with Allen Martin at Dixon's this year about layering the color of the finish as it's layed down. Then when simulating mild wear when finishing the rifle/gun, the end result is multi toned rather than the monotone look that I get. Sounds really intriguing to me and it's gonna take lots of experimentation I'm sure, but that's what I will do with my next build.

Offline Acer Saccharum

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 19311
    • Thomas  A Curran
Re: Gun finishing
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2009, 10:57:57 PM »
All of my guns so far have been new, or slightly used look, when finished. But my current rifle will have gone through several owners and wars and repairs to get to its current condition, and I would like it to look 'real'. I believe it is an art unto itself, and if I can get somewhat close to the right feel or look, I will be quite happy.

Tom
Tom Curran's web site : http://monstermachineshop.net
Ramrod scrapers are all sold out.

Joe S

  • Guest
Re: Gun finishing
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2009, 11:45:01 PM »
Quote
I believe it is an art unto itself

Yup.  I agree.  I have fiddled with it quite a bit, and have not considered any of my techniques good enough for a gun (yet).  The most promising metal aging method I’ve found is electrolysis.  All you need is a battery charger and a salt-water bath.  Use the metal you want to age as the anode.  I have not found any of the commonly posted chemical aging techniques acceptable.

Metal is one thing, wood is another.  I don’t have a clue about aging wood.  There are a lot of guns posted on this site with “aged” metal, and high gloss plastic finishes.  Personally, I find this juxtaposition artistically incongruous.  There’s a guy named Kettenburg who may have some insight into this problem.  I think we should put him in a barrel and nail the lid on until he coughs up everything he knows.

Offline Tom Currie

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1294
Re: Gun finishing
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2009, 11:50:11 PM »
I couldn't agree more, it is an art unto itself.

Offline Dr. Tim-Boone

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 6538
  • I Like this hat!!
Re: Gun finishing
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2009, 12:26:33 AM »
Jack Dupree has a fowler on the blog that is pretty heavily aged.....nice overall look especially on the wood

http://contemporarymakers.blogspot.com/2009/09/jack-duprey-fowler.html
De Oppresso Liber
Marietta, GA

Liberty is the only thing you cannot have unless you are willing to give it to others. – William Allen White

Learning is not compulsory...........neither is survival! - W. Edwards Deming

Offline bob in the woods

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4555
Re: Gun finishing
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2009, 12:58:01 AM »
With regard to curly maple finishing, I have not found a stain which remotely comes close to iron filings desolved in an acid. I like to se a 6% vinegar and actual old wrought iron. I get a depth to the wood I just don't get with the modern stains. Also, I can't find anything better than a linseed or linseed and bees wax mix to duplicate the soft finish, again with much depth.

Offline rich pierce

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 19540
Re: Gun finishing
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2009, 01:19:52 AM »
In addition to those mentioned, Earl Lanning, Mel Hankla, Jack Brooks, Mike Brooks, the whole Woodbury school and a bunch of others are good at aging wood realistically, building up some gunk, showing wear areas, etc.  Most try to achieve the look of a stock that has been well-used but not dried out.  The dried out look of an attic condition gun is not so attractive.  I think what most are going for is a "still in active use" look, a gun that has years or decades of wear but gets rubbed down now and again with some oil, like a current user would do to maintain a working gun.

On the metal, especially the iron, I don't like the "uniform pitting" look, and prefer something more like what happens on real guns in use- some areas shined off, some areas with some original finish intact, and areas with pitting where it belongs- at the breech end, where water and dampness or fouling sits on a barrel or lock.
Andover, Vermont

Offline Acer Saccharum

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 19311
    • Thomas  A Curran
Re: Gun finishing
« Reply #8 on: September 30, 2009, 03:33:31 AM »
Some good points, Rich. Wear in the wrong places looks wrong. Built up gunk in others.

Honest looking wear on both metal AND wood is hard to achieve, if you have not done it before, and don't have some originals to look at.

Look at the way certain tools get worn, a spade handle gets different wear than a rake. Why? because it's used differently.

I particularly am impressed with the way these guys finish the wood, so very worn, carving barely exists. Was it carved fully, and then worn with abrasives, replicating rapid wear patterns?
Tom Curran's web site : http://monstermachineshop.net
Ramrod scrapers are all sold out.

PeterB

  • Guest
Re: Gun finishing
« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2009, 09:00:05 AM »
Why not make it new and let the great grandkids admire the wear. Of course, they'd probably refinish it with the latest space age poly.

Offline P.Bigham

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 596
Re: Gun finishing
« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2009, 03:02:44 PM »
 Tom  I belive you can get the finish your looking for by Staining the stock with a type of Yellow die first. Then apply your Nitric Acid finish. Use a fine sandpaper to rub out the areas were the Rifle is handled and as you said to soften the Carving.
" not all who wander are lost"

Offline Dr. Tim-Boone

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 6538
  • I Like this hat!!
Re: Gun finishing
« Reply #11 on: October 01, 2009, 05:56:51 PM »
Take a look at the Wm Britton Antique rifle on Mark Elliot's site under "Antique Guns"
http://www.valongrifles.com/

Finish is nice, though aged, brass is pretty blackened..... Don't know who did what to it but I like the look. :) ;)
De Oppresso Liber
Marietta, GA

Liberty is the only thing you cannot have unless you are willing to give it to others. – William Allen White

Learning is not compulsory...........neither is survival! - W. Edwards Deming

Joe S

  • Guest
Re: Gun finishing
« Reply #12 on: October 01, 2009, 06:02:00 PM »
Quote
Tom  I belive you can get the finish your looking for by Staining the stock with a type of Yellow die first.

If you want yellow, try concentrated hydrogen peroxide.  You can get it at a health food store.  It turns maple a yellowish color that is, at least to my eye, identical to aged maple.  Do not get the hydrogen peroxide on your fingers.

eagle24

  • Guest
Re: Gun finishing
« Reply #13 on: October 01, 2009, 06:57:11 PM »
I like the soft old look that a lot of the contemporary builders get also.  I tried to achieve that look with my first build and found out how hard it is.  On metal, one thing I discovered is that different types of metal react very differently to aging efforts.  I used something different on every piece of metal on my rifle in an effort to make them all look similar.  The wood was a different matter entirely.  I wanted to rub out the aqua fortis stain in the wrist area and an area on the lower forestock but had very little success getting it to change color from the rest of the stock.  I finally just left the stock more "as new" and went on with it.  There is definitely an art to the aging techniques some of the builders use and I definitely don't have it.

I looked at an original rifle at the CLA show that had a beautiful honey color to the maple stock.  It was very light and golden in color with an awesome patina.  I'd sure like to know how that stock was originally finished.  Maybe just left natural and rubbed down with linseed oil?

PeterB

  • Guest
Re: Gun finishing
« Reply #14 on: October 01, 2009, 07:26:41 PM »
Many 19th Century military guns were inundated for a period of time in linseed oil. Then Father Time takes over. Linseed oil is photosensitive and darkens with age. It was often renewed (the old addage for using linseed oil on a stock was once a day for a week, once a week for a month, once a month for a year, and once a year forever). They usually added it on then rubbed it in. This also smeared dirt around-especially around wear areas like grip and forearm areas.