Two piece riveted buttplate, 1/16th inch steel

[HighUintas]

I am considering an attempt at a 2 piece riveted butt plate. I have a propane torch with a mapp bottle, but no forge. So, I'd be bending and annealing for forming it.

I have 1/16" cold rolled sheet readily available, but I have seen 0.090" sheet anywhere, except for the great hardware I like, but that is 01 tool steel.

For a first timer, would 1/16" sheet be too thin to have a good chance of a good result?

[flinchrocket]

I think it would be ok for a SMR. The narrow width and the curve in the back will stiffen it up.

[HighUintas]

I was going to go for something closer to an early Hawken buttplate that MBS has. It's about 1.5" wide and isn't curved as deeply, I don't think.

https://www.muzzleloaderbuilderssupply.com/mbs3cart/agora.cgi?cart_id=627000.4565&next=75&product=Buttplates

BP-HAE4-I Early Hawken buttplate in steel
Early Hawken style buttplate in waxcast in steel. Butt length = 4 7/8", butt width = 1 7/16", comb length = 2 3/4", comb width = 1 1/16", comb height = 3/8". Suitable for an early Hawken or other plains style rifles. These castings are very thin - thinner that most of our castings.

I'd like to be able to make one similar to the Philip Creamer rifle, but this being a 58 cal I don't want it curved as much. So, the curve and width of the early Hawken but I'd try to put the flat on the top the return like the Creamer. https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-kTDGBKXLCPc/Wx27nG8-DnI/AAAAAAABxkg/MOtTByg1TsIvqn6Jop0K3EDkNff-8LOzgCLcBGAs/s1600/TNKY18_600_rl.jpg

[flinchrocket]

I think I got the picture. You could rivet that, but I would also braze or copper braze them together. It also doesn’t take much of a curve to stiffen it up. And you can always coat the inside with braze to firm it up. I have used .050 on early style buttplates over 2” wide to reduce weight, but there a little flimsy to inlet.
If I remember correctly, the buttplate on the Edward Marshall rifle is about 1/16 thick, but again it’s a wide early plate.
If nothing else, it will be good practice.

[smylee grouch]

Just curious if 1/16 will be thick enuf to have enuf steel left in your counter sunk screw holes. 

[flinchrocket]

  This is .050 thick

The screw fit fine,but the screwdriver was a little wider than the screw.

[Hungry Horse]

 You must remember that not all SMR buttplates were two piece. I own an original that is made in one piece. Granted the area where the buttplate and the comb return join is only about a quarter inch, but there is no rivet, or seam at the point of the buttplate. It also is beautifully contoured on all surfaces. I’m sure it made the forge brazing much easier, but no doubt made the cutting of the pattern more complicated. Good luck.

Hungry Horse

[Hungry Horse]

 If you use hot rolled mild steel it won’t work harden and you won’t have to anneal it. You can make the forming dies from a piece of about 1” gas pipe cut in half length wise. It will work easier if you can get a welder to weld a piece of 1/4” strap to the bottom so you can clamp it in a vise. A worn out old cold chisel with the edge rounded off makes a good forming punch.

Hungry Horse

[HighUintas]

Thanks, all. It is just common hardware store 16ga mild sheet and it's actually a bit thin at 0.055ish. Maybe I'll give it a shot and see what happens. I'll see if my torch gets hot enough to braze with some brass filings. Otherwise, I have some silver bearing solder that should be strong enough for the job

[okieboy]

  I will be interested to hear your experience trying to brass braze with a torch. You said you have Mapp gas, but that is unlikely since the last of it was manufactured in 2008. You more likely have "Mapp-Pro" which is almost entirely propylene. Mapp gas burned at 5300 F, propane burns at 3600 F and Mapp-Pro burns at 3730 F. So they are getting substantially more money for 130 F by using a name similar to a better product.
 You can push the temperature up by adding oxygen with the right equipment. If you really do have Mapp gas, you would need a Mapp rated torch to safely use it.
 I really miss real Mapp gas and felt like a real sucker when I innocently bought Mapp-Pro and wondered why I could not achieve the heats that I had previously enjoyed. So, I did my research and learned my lesson. 

[HighUintas]

Well then call me a sucker! I have mapp-pro. It is actually just ignorance. I've never been instructed on any welding, brazing, or mapp torches. All I know is what I learned from my father on how to sweat copper pipe and what I've read on silver soldering steel.

I've got the standard brass propane pencil tip torch head that has the air intake ports about 1.5" from the end and I've got a piezo trigger type propane torch that has the air intake back by the start of the tube and puts out 3 pencil tip flames.  That one seems to heat 1/8 ,x 3/4" steel pretty quickly

[Daniel Coats]

Looks like I got burned too thinking I was getting Mapp gas. No wonder it didn't work!

[HighUintas]

Nice one 

[Dwshotwell]

I just went through the whole MAPP vs. MAP Pro thing myself. There is not a lot of good information out there and much of it is dated so don’t feel like a sucker (that or there are several us in the same leaky boat). I’ve looked for “metal working 101” type stuff but haven’t had much luck. Posting here has been the best bet.

[B.Barker]

You can use blocks of hard maple to form your steel if it's 1/16" and hot rolled will be a better choice. You can also make a temporary forge furnace with fire brick and propane torch. It's not great but the brick will hold in the heat and give more even heat to the work. The book A $50 knife shop or something close to that shows how to make a forge with fire bricks and propane torch. I'll look to see if I can find mine. Good book to have even if you aren't wanting to make knives.

[HighUintas]

That's pretty interesting! I do have some ceramic fiber insulation that I had been planning to use for a sort of makeshift count that I could probably break up into a forging furnace over my turkey fryer propane burner.

I had thought I might try to shape some scrap maple into a form for the sheet metal, so that's good to hear it will work

[rsells]

HighUintas,
I use 1/16 inch thick material now and again to make butt plates for my southern mountain rifles.  I shape the two parts and use a fixture I made to hold them in place while I braze the two parts together along the heal area.  When it cools, I drill a hole through the two parts to rivet the two parts together.   I also have a little fixture to hold the parts while I braze the two parts and the rivet together on the inside area of the parts.  I let the parts cool and clean the excess brass around the seam on the out side of the parts.  After I inlet the parts into the stock blank, I mark the areas where the  screws will be going through the back and final of the butt plate assembly.  Next, I cut two oval shaped parts and shape them to fit the inside areas where the screws will be coming through the parts.  I use Stay-Brite low heat silver solder to solder the two parts inside the heal and cresent of the butt plate where the screws will be coming through the parts.  I check the finished part with soot to make sure I do not have to do some more inlet work before installing the butt plate assembly to the stock with  the screws. I have never had any failures of any of the parts in the field.
                                                                                 Roger Sells