Recommend light weight Fowler kit??

[Hunterdude]

For my personal use, I am holding out for a Kibler Fowler, I am hopeful Jim will build a slim light weight Fowler.
   My upland bird hunting buddy has expressed an interest in me building him a Fowler as well. There is a Jim Chambers Fowler kit listed at 6 3/4 pounds....we are both hopeful to get down closer to 6 pounds if we can. sitting fox offers a "poor boy or barn gun" Fowler and building without butt plate or side plate may trim off a little weight, but I suspect the barrel profile is the Lions share of weight? We are not as interested in shooting round ball as bird shot. I do not know if that lets us run thinner barrels as lead bird shot can be heavy.
   Most kits I found do not advertise a final build weight, we carry the shotguns All day over pointing bird dogs, so 3/4 pound Does make a difference. Any thoughts are welcome!

[smylee grouch]

Unless you hang that 3/4 lb. out on the end of the muzzle I wouldnt be able to tell the difference between 6 and 6&3/4 lbs.

[James Rogers]

The Chambers officers fuzee or wait to see what Jim comes up with. For a kit,  I dont think there are really any other viable choices for what you are looking for. 
Jason at Rice makes a 4140 barrel that will take some weight down if you are building from a stick.
Putting what weight you have to contend with between the hands is key. 

[Hunterdude]

I agree that if the weight is close to the lock area, than the extra 3/4 pound is less of an issue than muzzle weight. I have high expectations for the Jim Kibler Fowler

[bob in the woods]

The Chambers Officer fusil is a fabulous , fast handling partridge gun.  I built one with the cherry stock. Waiting on the Kibler may be more or less the same as waiting on Chambers, unless Barbie has the barrel and stock on the shelf. 

[smart dog]

Hi Hunterdude,
Are you set on a kit?  The reason I ask is none of the English fowler kits of which I am aware offer anything other than export or trade versions of English fowler.  Based on some indications by Jim Kibler last year, his fowler may also be modeled on a trade or export grade gun.  I don't believe any have hooked breeches, keyed barrels, or really light weight barrels.  In my opinion, none available today offer the light weight and balance of real 18th century English fowlers.  If you look at our tutorial section under "Miscellaneous Tutorials" is a multipart thread showing how to build a light and lively mid-18th century English fowler.  In additionis another multipart tutorial "Understanding the British Fowler".  In my opinion, the best barrel commonly available for a light and lively bird gun is the 42", 16 gauge Griffin profile barrel by Colerain.  As James Rogers mentioned, Rice makes a light barrel from 4140 steel but the version I saw at Dixons has a trade gun like profile not one commonly seen on higher end guns.  The Griffin barrel has a rapid taper from the breech closer to true Spanish barrels than any other offering.  For me, the current "Holy Grail" of fowler barrels is a Colerain Griffin barrel, 42" long, 16 gauge and "D" weight such that the breech is almost 1.25" in diameter.  With that barrel, the balance point can be made to be just in front of the lock.  Light and lively for upland birds.

dave   

[James Rogers]

I concur with Dave on the "Griffin" 42" in 16. Set it up with a hooked breech and relieve the bore at the muzzle and you are golden.
That 4140 barrel from Rice I mentioned was patterned by someone off of a very nice Dolep fowling piece at the Royal Armory at Leeds. That style is more seen in earlier birding pieces as far as English guns are concerned but the breech needs to be much larger. Also,  hooked breeches aren't seen in those earlier guns but I prefer their stock fit architecture. In its current profile with lighter breech, it is more akin IMO to an export/trade grade styling and is a finely made barrel. 

[Hunterdude]

That Griffin 16ga barrel does sound sexier than socks on a Rooster!
  I fear at this time I am not well prepared to start with a tree and sweet barrel and build a fine Fowler, I do hope to get there one day, perhaps if I retire early I can tackle such a project. I will remain hopeful the Kibler Fowler will be at least somewhat slim and lively muzzle (fingers crossed)

[bob in the woods]

Just for clarification, the Chambers Officer's fusil's round barrel is 1.25 in at the breach, with a rapid taper and  flare .   The gun is a joy and really deserves a look.

[James Rogers]

Just for clarification, the Chambers Officer's fusil's round barrel is 1.25 in at the breach, with a rapid taper and  flare .   The gun is a joy and really deserves a look.

Agreed!

[Hunterdude]

Just for clarification, the Chambers Officer's fusil's round barrel is 1.25 in at the breach, with a rapid taper and  flare .   The gun is a joy and really deserves a look.

Bob, I looked over the architecture and specs, it does indeed sound like a barrel with weight bias to the rear making for a lively pointing Fowler. I am not ruling this kit out, but also noticed this kit is listed at 7 and 3/4 lbs compared to the "Pennsylvania Fowler" listed on page 3 (I think) is listed at 6 and 3/4 pounds...just wondering if that Chambers  Pennsylvania Fowler might also have a nice barrel profile? Just considering All my options -thanks for all the input!

[Mike Brooks]

I have built several hundred  fowling guns and I would recommend the chambers officers fuzzy. It's  has super lively  balance. The PA fowler doesn't have the same balance or fit..
More of a buck and ball gun. Also, if you're building a  wing gun I'd  go with 16 minimum and heavily consider a12 or 10.

[Hunterdude]

I have built several hundred  fowling guns and I would recommend the chambers officers fuzzy. It's  has super lively  balance. The PA fowler doesn't have the same balance or fit..
More of a buck and ball gun. Also, if you're building a  wing gun I'd  go with 16 minimum and heavily consider a12 or 10.

Good to know, thank you.

[Daryl]

I have built several hundred  fowling guns and I would recommend the chambers officers fuzzy. It's  has super lively  balance. The PA fowler doesn't have the same balance or fit..
More of a buck and ball gun. Also, if you're building a  wing gun I'd  go with 16 minimum and heavily consider a12 or 10.

I'd agree wholeheartedly with the gauge choices, Mike has recommended.
My own 1/2 stocked, kinda English styled smoothbore handles really well. It would be a better shot shooter if 16 or 12 bore, though.

[Mike Brooks]

Here's a 10 bore I did not long ago. 38 or 40" barrel. If it wasn't turkey choked it would be an excellent upland gun. Probably around 7lbs....can't remember.

[Hunterdude]

Regarding gage:
  Correct me if I am wrong? I would assume if one where shooting a heavy load...say 1 1/2oz of lead shot and I do not know what the appropriate powder charge would be? But let's say it was 80 grains of 2F....if you shot this out of a 20ga it seems like it would be a tall column of shot in the loaded bore, I suspect fairly heavy felt recoil and poor pattern? That the exact same load in a 10gage would be better pattern and less felt recoil with shorter shot column in 10gage bore?Just trying to understand the mechanical aspect of gage selection.

[Mike Brooks]

Generally,, what ever gauge you settle on for an upland gun I'd Have it jug choked. No matter what the gage, loaded the same will create similar recoil. Ideally,  square loads will pattern better for wing shooting, so a larger bore will shoot a better pattern for wing shooting

[Sc0-]

Was just looking at one of Mr Caywood's 12ga fowlers earlier today:

http://www.caywoodguns.com/12-ga.-english-fowler.html

[Mike Brooks]

Was just looking at one of Mr Caywood's 12ga fowlers earlier today:

http://www.caywoodguns.com/12-ga.-english-fowler.html

1) barrel is buried in the wood.
2)Ramrod is too  large @ 7/16"
3)Too thick of web between he barrel and ramrod hole/groove
4)Too much wood on the bottom of the gun
5) STOCKED IN MAPLE

[Hunterdude]

Was just looking at one of Mr Caywood's 12ga fowlers earlier today:

http://www.caywoodguns.com/12-ga.-english-fowler.html

I saw those, On the site he claims his 12ga Fowlers come in around 5 lb , some a little under that, and some just over.
     Those numbers seem very light, I wonder who he source his barrels from? I would love to handle a Fowler that light, seems like recoil might be an issue with stout loads, but you do not need much power to bring down grouse/woodcock.