Author Topic: Brass barreled Jaeger  (Read 1851 times)

Offline Yazel.xring

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Brass barreled Jaeger
« on: April 08, 2022, 01:32:04 AM »


I had a chance to check out this Jaeger, there aren’t any makers marks or indications to a location/era- would any of you have any ideas?

The patch box lid is a horn sheet attached with some kind of glue. Not sure if it’s original or not, open to any insight














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Offline Otto

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Re: Brass barreled Jaeger
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2022, 03:16:33 AM »
very nice piece (and a pretty good show and tell too). Great lock and superior acanthus motifs in the brass. Gotta wonder how that cock screw goes on?

Offline Monty59

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Re: Brass barreled Jaeger
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2022, 09:38:50 AM »
Otto the cock screw is on the inside of the lock ! Here pics of a lock from one of my Jaeger Rifles.

Monty




Offline smart dog

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Re: Brass barreled Jaeger
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2022, 02:02:30 PM »
Hi,
For some reason I think the gun might be from Carlsbad or Bohemian from the end of the 17th or very early 18th century.  I base that solely on impressions from looking at many photos of Bohemian guns. 

dave
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Offline Longknife

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Re: Brass barreled Jaeger
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2022, 02:41:20 PM »
Very nice! Ethan, did you check the caliber? That twist looks pretty fast too did you check it? Thanks For showing this, LK
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Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Brass barreled Jaeger
« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2022, 04:52:03 PM »
looks like Carlsbad to me
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Offline Otto

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Re: Brass barreled Jaeger
« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2022, 06:34:58 PM »
Thanks for the pix Monty. Forgive my dullness, but I still don't get it. How does the screw go from the inside out? Through the tumbler shaft itself? Maybe I'm missing something?

Offline mr. no gold

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Re: Brass barreled Jaeger
« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2022, 08:07:48 PM »
Just a brief observation here, but the tang and the breech are very similar to the Monmouth/Rochester rifle that sold at auction some time ago. The short, square ended tang and 'chain' like engraved design are very much alike. This gun lacks the intaglio cartouche that you see on the former. Are these features seen on other German gun barrels?
Wonderful gun! Thank you for posting the photos; definitely dream stuff.
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Offline Yazel.xring

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Re: Brass barreled Jaeger
« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2022, 08:36:11 PM »
Very nice! Ethan, did you check the caliber? That twist looks pretty fast too did you check it? Thanks For showing this, LK

Hey Ed, thanks! It’s a .54. Tried to get the twist but my rod got stuck and it was quite embarrassing  ;D here’s a shot down the barrel.

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Offline Eric Kettenburg

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Re: Brass barreled Jaeger
« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2022, 10:47:45 PM »
Thanks for the pix Monty. Forgive my dullness, but I still don't get it. How does the screw go from the inside out? Through the tumbler shaft itself? Maybe I'm missing something?

Some Euro work - you can find it in most countries, it's not distinctly German, although there are varies approaches - will utilize a tumbler that instead of the square key portion (protruding through the lockplate) being threaded with female threads, will carry a shaft with male threads and a "nut" so to speak is then threaded on to it from the outside.  Brits used it on a number of locks, particularly 19th century, and the nut was slotted and tightened with a special driver that was basically a standard screwdriver with a hollow or relief in the center of the blade to allow clearance for the male threaded shaft.

The rifle illustrated here by Monty looks as though it *might* use the typical male threaded shaft with the portion in the center of the decorative nut (just going by the photo) being the exposed end of the shaft, which may be also threaded and then deocratively filed to blend in with the nut.  I say might - Monty obviously would be better suited to explain his own rifle.  The rifle illustrated here as the brass barrel piece does not seem to use a through-shaft, so the outer decorative 'nut' conceals the whole thing.  I'm not sure how they were tightened; I'd guess careful tapping with hardwood or soft (brass or copper) punches/chisels to tighten.

I've not personally seen one with a true separate screw from the inside, i.e the tumbler drilled through and a screw going completely through the tumbler to thread into the nut.  Not sure how that could be done if still retaining an internal tumbler shaft/axis to work with a bridle.
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Offline Monty59

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Re: Brass barreled Jaeger
« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2022, 11:29:00 AM »
I disassembled the lock for you and I think then you understand how it is constructed pictures are often better than an explanation.

Monty






« Last Edit: April 09, 2022, 11:49:09 AM by Monty59 »

Offline Otto

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Re: Brass barreled Jaeger
« Reply #11 on: April 09, 2022, 05:14:27 PM »
Thanks for taking the time to  disassemble the lock & post pix Monty. Very kind of you to take the time. That is an arrangement that I've not seen before. Exactly as you said, I just couldn't get my head around it. Rather clever, but I think you obviously lose the stability of the tumbler stud being housed in the bridle. But then again I've seen lock internals with no bridle at all so----

Offline Eric Kettenburg

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Re: Brass barreled Jaeger
« Reply #12 on: April 09, 2022, 06:11:21 PM »
Very interesting!  That's a first for me too.
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Offline Ian Pratt

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Re: Brass barreled Jaeger
« Reply #13 on: April 09, 2022, 07:20:17 PM »
I disassembled the lock for you and I think then you understand how it is constructed pictures are often better than an explanation.

Monty



Now that's pretty cool, thanks!  Is there a recess on the inner face of the bridle to give clearance for that nut, or does the nut tighten down pretty flush with surface of the tumbler? Hard to tell from the pictures, but seems like it would have to be one or the other or you'd get lateral movement of the fly

« Last Edit: April 09, 2022, 07:24:27 PM by Ian Pratt »

Offline Eric Kettenburg

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Re: Brass barreled Jaeger
« Reply #14 on: April 09, 2022, 07:40:31 PM »
Does the through-screw, once tightened and the little inside nut in place, protrude internally beyond the surface of the tumbler to act as an internal axis (w/ recess on inside surface of the bridle), or is the only purpose of the bridle here to try to hold the tumbler relatively flat against plate with no internal shaft to act as an axis?

Hope this makes sense.
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Offline Monty59

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Re: Brass barreled Jaeger
« Reply #15 on: April 09, 2022, 08:38:48 PM »
Hallo Eric, what you already accept the only purpose of the bridle here to try to hold the tumbler relatively flat against plate with no internal shaft to act as an axis?

Monty

Offline Otto

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Re: Brass barreled Jaeger
« Reply #16 on: April 10, 2022, 05:35:44 AM »
AHA. I get what Eric is suggesting. I think the' nut" looks flat to the face of the tumbler, but wouldn't that be cool if it was proud and the inside of the bridle was recessed to accept it as a pivot.

Offline Eric Kettenburg

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Re: Brass barreled Jaeger
« Reply #17 on: April 10, 2022, 03:59:35 PM »
Yes, that's a clearer explanation of what I was questioning.  Honestly though, this rifle probably was never shot enough to allow for the increased wear to the plate typically caused by a tumbler with no interior bridle or interior 'axis' and the flat bridle - even without any interior pivot point - probably serves the purpose well to keep the tumbler riding fairly flat.

I really like this rifle!  Lots of bling, that's for sure.
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Offline alacran

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Re: Brass barreled Jaeger
« Reply #18 on: April 10, 2022, 04:37:38 PM »
That is really a cool rifle. I thought at first sight that it may be from Carlsbad or Cronach. The inletting is much better than you usually see in those guns.
They also seem to share the same or similar castings. It could be Danish, or somewhere in the Low Countries. Maybe the reason for the brass barrel and lock. The Danes made a lot of Jaegers.
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Offline Robby

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Re: Brass barreled Jaeger
« Reply #19 on: April 10, 2022, 05:47:32 PM »
Seeing the inside of the bridle sure would  answer a lot of questions.
Robby
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Offline Otto

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Re: Brass barreled Jaeger
« Reply #20 on: April 10, 2022, 06:06:46 PM »
Hahaha  how cool is all that. A whole lotta thinking and tinkering just to avoid a screw slot. But then again if that cool tiny tweak impresses the Barron or Duke, then hey, that "extra effort" is what drove all the extra time and attention and money that kept those skilled guys cranking out better and better jaegers for all of us to fall in love with.