DOM or Pipe Barrels

[Hungry Horse]

 I wouldn’t underestimate those India made barrels. Years ago I owned a Navy Arms shotgun. It’s barrels were perfectly smooth inside, and out. A friend bought an Indian built 12gauge that had a barrel that looked like a chicken neck. In fact it looked so bad that it threw quite a few shooters off they’re game. That gun shot amazingly well, and never faltered, at least in the barrel department. Now the locks were a whole other thing. Outshot my Navy Arms several times, but that might have been due to me worrying about those barrels.

Hungry Horse

[Dan Fruth]

I also make fowler barrels from DOM tube. I live near Shelby Ohio, home of Shelby Tube. They are pioneers in this industry, and their products are used for hydraulic cylinders and rated at Much higher pressures than BP produce. In the case of a barrel obstruction, modern drilled steel tends to explode and throw shards, but DOM will split along the weld, and not cause a bomb-like failure.

   I know Ken tested these barrels with a double charge and 2x the shot load, and no problems.

[bluenoser]

This is a most interesting thread and I have learned much.  As I now understand it, there are two types of DOM - welded and seamless with the wall thickness in welded being the more consistent of the two, resulting in a straighter bore.
Am I understanding correctly?

[Dphariss]

I also make fowler barrels from DOM tube. I live near Shelby Ohio, home of Shelby Tube. They are pioneers in this industry, and their products are used for hydraulic cylinders and rated at Much higher pressures than BP produce. In the case of a barrel obstruction, modern drilled steel tends to explode and throw shards, but DOM will split along the weld, and not cause a bomb-like failure.

   I know Ken tested these barrels with a double charge and 2x the shot load, and no problems.

Modern steel designed for gun barrels will not break and throw frag like a grenade unless a high explosive is used for a propellant. Brittle cold rolled free  machining steels do fragment even at BP pressure levels of 10-20% of its “tensile numbers”. Splitting along the weld is not acceptable either.
I could give examples of a major manufacturer trying to figure out how people were fragmenting their guns, but then someone would start whining about mentioning modern guns.  So just take my word for it. Or find a metallurgist that will even talk about gun barrel failures. Most are afraid it’s part of a court case and will only communicate through a 3rd or 4th party no names mentioned if then. Yeah I have tried in the past.
Proofing a steel not designed for gun barrels proves nothing or at best very little. In fact it can set up a later failure with cheap steels. I could site a string of failures concerning modern gray powder guns and a steel that workhardens but then the whining would start again.  And IIRC it started as DOM tubes. Are the welds stress relieved? Is the material heated before welding to prevent hard (brittle) areas along the weld? What is the grade and alloy used? How does it react to stress risers like dovetails and “wedding bands”? If properly welded why does it fail the weld? Sounds like the weld is embrittled or faulty.

[RonT]

bluenoser, yes.  Sort of.  Both processes mechanically are Drawn Over a Mandrel and through a Die.  On wall thickness, if you are really good with a set of mics the wall variation around the cross section can be measured, the oscillation in Seamless and 'thick' forged weld area in welded.
I'm describing my experience only.  Re-read my 'sooner' as 'rather', and add my tube vs. your tube.   We make a really high quality tube!  .
And yes, our tubes were/are Stress relieved. 
And, we have no control over wedding bands, dovetail cuts, drilling and tapping, soldering, over loading, short starting, ad infinitum...
DOM has gotten a bum rap.
Cheers,
R

[yulzari]

The vent-less muskets made in India and sold here and in the States, are made from "high tensile strength tubing".
As they do not have vents, they have not been "proved" however will show all the "copied" proof marks as if made in England or France.

These routinely pass UK and German government proofing.

[Daryl]

That's interesting, for sure. The one I had, only had 3 threads holding the breech plug in, and none of them went within .020" of the thread bottoms, & one thread had only .002" purchase in the breech threads. Upon firing the threads filled with fouling, which was stopped by a flat plate of steel attached to the breech plug pressed against the breech end of the barrel. If that plate was not there, the stock would have blown. 
Quite interesting for sure.
I sent it back and they said they proofed it and it was fine.

[Ric Carter]

Do as you wish, but I prefer to stick to a quality barrel when it is going to be real close to my face.

The manufacturing process for DOM round steel tubing begins with coils of steel, which are slit to the proper width for the desired tube size. The strip is cold formed and passed through an electric resistance welder which joins the edges together, under pressure, to complete the tubular shape. After testing the weld’s integrity, the tubing is cut to length for further processing. The cold-drawing process creates a uniform, precision product with substantially improved tolerances, surface finish and tensile strength, increased hardness and good machinability. In this process, the tube is cleaned and annealed, and one end of each length is squeezed to a point so it can be gripped by the drawing mechanism. The tube is then drawn through one or more dies and over mandrels. This reduces the diameter of the tube and thins its walls to the required dimensions in a controlled fashion to provide the qualities desired in the finished product. Metallurgically, drawing improves the tube’s concentricity, tensile strength, hardness and machinability. Close dimensional accuracy is achieved through tight control of both outside and inside diameters.

[flinchrocket]

Good quality barrels are a lot cheaper than the emergency room bill.

[rich pierce]

Ken Netting has sure built and sold a lot of smoothbores. I’m guessing in the top 3 for owner-operator types. So far nobody has shown any data here, just varying informed views.

I’d like to see tests of one of Ken’s barrels compared to a proofed musket or fowler barrel.

[bob in the woods]

Ken Netting has sure built and sold a lot of smoothbores. I’m guessing in the top 3 for owner-operator types. So far nobody has shown any data here, just varying informed views.

I’d like to see tests of one of Ken’s barrels compared to a proofed musket or fowler barrel.

How many mishaps have been documented re the DOM barrels ?   I have only heard about one, and that incident was a product of gross negligence if I recall correctly.  Based on the opinions/information seen here, you'd expect that the emergency rooms would filled ?   I had an India made musket, and the issue I had was with the breaching. [ as per Daryl ]   I've not seen anyone around here have any problems with the barrels . For what it's worth, many don't even approve of the barrels [ material]  sold by a lot of the mainstream manufacturers  , so I guess each person has to decide for themselves in the end. I remember that Don Getz once took a 10 or 12 inch section of barrel, had it breached at both ends, and completely filled with BP.  A touch hole in the middle of the section was used to set off the charge using a piece of fuse.  The barrel held !   He said that he couldn't imagine all that pressure coming out of that small hole, but it did.    When I get a barrel today, I always make sure to check how well the breach plug was fitted. I don't worry about the barrel itself.   Of course, this is for guns shooting round balls or shot. When talking about a long range type bullet rifle , I want a certified gun barrel material because the pressures are exponentially higher.

[Daryl]

Pay attention to what Bob just said. Bullets GREATLY increase breech pressure.
I recall going through a loading manual seeing black powder loads with bullets, pushing 30,000PSI in Accurate Arms manual.
That is a LOT of pressure generated by 'simple' black powder. It is also more than double what Lyman recorded in their old BP manual.
Mind you, vents and nipples do reduce pressure, but the fact you have to use a platinum lined nipple with bullets while a stainless steel
nipple is toast in 20 shots should say something.

[smokinbuck]

I don't have a horse in this race but I do know Ken very well. I will try to remember to ask him what he uses.

[smokinbuck]

I took the time to contact Ken regarding DOM BARRELS and he had nothing but good to say. In over 300 barrels he has failed to blow up or bulge one with a 200 grain FFFg charge and 2 ounces of shot. DOM barrels DO NOT have a seam, maybe a scratch from some debris on the mandrels, but no seems. For what it is worth, the steel used in DOM barrels is high pressure 1026 which the military also uses in some of their weopons..

[Goo]

I think some people are mistaking DOM drawn over mandrel for CDS cold drawn seamless. Exact wording matters here in this topic because misuse of words and misunderstanding them causes mistakes. DOM has a welded seam the process is flawless for all practical purposes.  The DOM weld is done by machine most likely controlled environment for perfect join of the seam. The drawing over the mandrel burnishes and hides the seam.    CDS cold drawn seamless starts with a billet that is heated pierced then drawn over a mandrel. This is a forging process, CDS being made from 1020 to 1026 mild steel depending on the ID and OD they choose one grade over the other. DOM however can be bought in 1020 -1026 but also the 4100 - 4160 grade much more difficult to deal with.   Rumor has it that the lower carbon 1020-1026 is better for black powder more closely resembling iron.   4100 series is what modern rifle barrels are made from and being higher carbon will work harden .   Don`t overload or misload your barrel. Lets think logically here, original barrels were an Iron skelp full of grain and slag, forge welded in oxygen rich atmosphere as compared to modern perfect computer controlled and engineered environmental controlled weld by robotic timed application that has to be profitable enough to make money running a thousand pounds of steel every 20 minutes.   Personally given the choice I would be happy with CDS I have some on back order.