W. Raymond Albion NY Halfstock

[tomknight]

I just acquired this rifle.  About all that I could find out about this maker was learned here in this forum.  W. Raymond appears to have been active from about 1850 - 1875.

Usually, I collect antique American military rifles, but I saw this one, put in a bid, and happened to win it.

Stock and metal is in decent shape, except for some "patina" (ok, rust).  The seller identified it as 58 caliber, but I haven't confirmed that.   It's missing the ramrod.  One interesting thing about it is that it has a second detent to place the rear sight closer to the trigger.

It's in decent condition, albeit a little rusty.  I will clean it up a bit with some Frontier pads and Kroil.

Attached are a few pics.  If anyone happens to know anything more, I'd love to learn more about it.   I am hoping it cleans up.  After I clean it up, I'll have it checked out by a gunsmith.

What type of ramrod would go with a rifle like this?  I'd like to get one that matches the rifle.

Here's a few pics.

[mr. no gold]

Nice rifle! Glad that you posted it, thank you. Any hickory rod shaped to fit the pipes will do for a ramrod. Lots of folks here could happily do the job for you and you would like the result. Big bore like that suggests the possibility of it's being a 'plains rifle.' Good find.
Dick

[tomknight]

Thanks Dick!

[Bob Roller]

An interesting relic but that unsupported drum and nipple make it a mediocre rifle at best.Be sure to check it with a long rod to make sure it's not still loaded.We have a friend who owns an antique shop here and we have discovered several that had been loaded for years and ONE with a powder that I think came out pf a modern shotgun cartridge.Replace the missing loading rod but don't try to fire it.
Bob Roller

[tomknight]

Rob -

What should support it - a lock plate?  I plan to take it a smith to evaluate after I clean it up.  I figured if it's shootable, I may try it.  If it's not, I'll see what it costs to get it there.  If that's too much, it'll go on the wall after cleanup.

Would be quite the surprise if it were loaded.  I'll run a cleaning rod in there soon when I clean up the outside.  I want to clean up the bore a bit to see what that looks like too.  I haven't had the nerve to look in there until I've confirmed it's not loaded.

Thanks much.

[mr. no gold]

It looks pretty good as is! What's to clean? In fact, the wood appears to. have already has some cleaning. Don't do too much to it or the value goes out the window.
Dick

[tomknight]

Thanks Dick.

Stock looks great.  I was going to try to remove some of the rust, especially around the nipple and hammer, and probably the barrel and lockplate.

Still trying to decide how much to try to do with it.

[mr. no gold]

Give the metal a coat of light oil and wipe it down with a cloth. You really don't need to use steel wool on it unless it is a very fine grade.
From the photos I wonder if this is a gun that was lightly used hence does not show a lot of wear.
Dick

[Bob Roller]

Rob -

What should support it - a lock plate?  I plan to take it a smith to evaluate after I clean it up.  I figured if it's shootable, I may try it.  If it's not, I'll see what it costs to get it there.  If that's too much, it'll go on the wall after cleanup.

Would be quite the surprise if it were loaded.  I'll run a cleaning rod in there soon when I clean up the outside.  I want to clean up the bore a bit to see what that looks like too.  I haven't had the nerve to look in there until I've confirmed it's not loaded.

Thanks much.

Yes,a lockplate.That drum looks like it's screwed into the side of a breech plug thread.I have made it a point to look at as many New York muzzle loaders as possible and none with a drum and nipple used a back action lock. The ones I see with a back action were high end target rifles with a bolster breech much like a Hawken or the N,G.Whitmore 40 caliber match rifle I had years ago.Getting back to "Loaded or not",there is no reason to ASSUME any gun is unloaded until proven so by inspection.Our local museum had a rare Civil War revolver with 6 loaded chambers and when I called it to the curators attention he said,"It's behind glass and harmless"
I am not knocking your antique but it is not made by any of the top NYS gunmakers and Shooting it is not advised.I speak from 70 years of muzzleloading experience and as a once in a rare while gunmaker.
Bob Roller

[tomknight]

thanks guys

[tomknight]

Resurrecting an old thread.  I did a little cleaning on the hammer and lock plate, which revealed some really nice engraving and scroll work.

I haven't done too much else to it.  I looked at all of the screws, and they all look like they've never been removed from Day 1, so I am not likely to go taking it apart.

The more I look at this rifle, the more glad I am that I bought it.

I'm going to take it get it checked out, and see what they say. 

[smokinbuck]

Back to Bob Roller's comments;
The drum is definitely in supported and the front of the lock plate looks like it may have been cut off. Hence the lack of support.
There also appears to be a crack started under the front of the lock plate below the drum.
Shootable? I'd question it, IMHO.